The State of Pennsylvania vs Bill Cosby, Roe vs Wade back in the headlines, and the Failed Kidnapping Plot to take the Governor of Michigan.

This week on the outlaw lawyer, Josh, and I will talk about the US Supreme Court ruling on the Bill Cosby case abortion limiting legislation making its way through several state legislatures and the entrapment defense is being used by defendants that are charged with the attempt to kidnap of Michigan Gov. Gretchen Witmer next welcome in the outlaw wire I Morgan Patrick Schumer advocate joined as always my Josh Whitaker and Joe Hamer managing our nerves at Whitaker Hamer law firm six. By year six variance between these two. They are pricing attorneys here in North Carolina and they have offices in Raleigh Garner Clayton Goldsboro Fuquay Marina and Gastonia.

And as always, if you come up with your own legal question.

You need some answers. We've got a number for you 800-659-1186 at 800-659-1186 leader contacted patient briefly what the call is about an attorney with Whitaker Hamer will be in touch gentleman it's it's a pleasure. I it's great to see you and we we normally do this audio wise, but now or in the video.

I love this. What's going be I guess pique interest on the show today Morgan forget there I think we do need a disclaimer that we are not accustomed to doing this and being being on TV right. I think everybody needs to know that were not going to be super camera ready today were Braga to make some mistakes because this is a new were usually in a little closet with her headphones on and are our mics in front of us a so bear with us as this is our first try at a videotaped outlaw lawyers. This is a good disclaimer support widget I you I do the consumer from a closet usually is media closet dark with my headphones and that's it means that your kids bang on the door yeah exactly that I serve. If you're used to listing the listening to us as a podcast were still going to be there for used to listening to us on the radio were starting to be there but now were to be have a YouTube channel and and on the website will have the video so just adding another another dynamic to the to the outlaw lawyer is not to talk about today. I think the most important thing that happened in the past week was at Scott Hall passed away. Yeah, that's the news that since Fred Hanratty and rooted in steerable part of my childhood man early 60s right, 63, 60, 63, but but he had been struggling for one a few. If you been listening. I think it comes up from time to time that that were closet wrestling closet also with our wrestling randomly as I disperse is slick and wet, but Scott Hall is very important if your wrestling fan who grew up in the 90s, 80s and 90s is is a big deal and was in the movie resurrection objects think Roberts was at the movie that won the headaches that maybe about his recovery from addiction. Yes, even though it's about Jake the snake. Scott Hall's recovery.

He had an alcohol maybe some other things I don't really remember, but mainly was alcohol and pain pills from that's usually down cocktail the wrestlers get on and so he was pretty far gone and and and came back. The move is even if you're not a wrestling fan at move is a really good movie to watch. I think and no Scott Hall did pass away, so he was getting a hip replacement surgery having a placement had three heart attacks after blood clot got loose but on we met we met him on. If you recall their at one of our wrestling shows. We went to the right. We did them in larger-than-life character.

He really made an impact man so you you his story was a good stories and amended what are your wrestling fan or not a wrestling fan I could pick it up in a football player you been anything but you know he was he was in the throes of addiction got help from his friends. He was well-liked to get help from his friends in any came back and did you see the quote from his Hall of Fame speech. The kept showing up on social media remember what it was. I remember bad times don't last but bad guys do.

That's the gist of the end of the quote, yet he says he says to write out either but he says he says hard work pays off dreams come true bad times don't last, and he was known as the bad guy that was 76 bad guys do what I think a minute, what you doing that bad times don't last that I keep remembering that Mike I don't think right now I'm going through a bad time in my personalized editing peak.

This is the peak for this lead is almost as good as it did so doesn't apply to me personally. Right now, but we all, we all have our bad times and then that's just gonna stick with me. You know that something that probably bad times don't last.

If I can get a tattoo to my forearm.

Slick point to it. Now people can hold you account your full you. What else. This is another this is an experiment that I'm doing is coming on the show. Before that, as as an older person I enjoy CBS and great.

I said that you value and longform stories yet. It's very, very relaxing. Have a lot of coffee while you watch it very nice.

More upbeat stories.

This week was really good by the way, but is neither here nor there.

They always do a special on people who have passed away during the week. They always have this little segment never do. I've never seen a professional regular has been that I've never seen a professional wrestler featured on that little minion that they do. But I'm I'm going to write an angry letter. If they don't, featured writer and that's something that's me because since the really big as a fan angry letter have a concern as our Sunday morning and said it's an absurd letter in follow-up letters and he they don't consent you and yeah we spent so much time to talk about the arts, which is great right they always have signal in the arts and they have not a fan of musical theater and are your and a huge fan of the hello and gave it away.

I don't know Morgan Stansel musical Peter Levitt. I dislike it. I'm not a fan is cultured may not be my mind. Professional wrestling musical theater the same due to sides of the same court right is to tells of the story and I musical theater has a better image been progressing. The point being CBS Sunday morning is spending time talking about per wrestling place in a lifetime time. I musical that I think is the of the same level you go see a musical about the life of Scott Hall and cell phone as long as there's no dance fighting I can dance fighting. Regular fighting is okay but dance fighting I am again dance fighting but anyway I think that was the most important thing I knew the crying stuff still going. I'm still paying a lot of attention to that. I can't not pay attention like Scott Hall, not Ukraine.

That's the thing that's very but you know what else I asked him to a lot of people ACC tourney basis terminals this past week and I know we like talk about sports. I didn't want any of these is not the first time in my life.

I watched the state game I could do it. I couldn't as a state fan I can put myself through that but I didn't want a single anymore steamship game I in turn to it on a commercial by accident.

This was the first year I completely ignored it even happened to great story and 7C Virginia Tech. A lot of players that no one else wanted. Couple Wofford transfers cannot coach shot lights out for four straight games may really really impressive beating UNC yeah I was crazy as they they needed over time right for the first game. It was like close to you talk you close game and they came out smoked everybody so some call it a great story really not even care what why states terrible Brooklyn as opposed to Greensboro was everything in it a multiple days except when I what used to be. Yeah, you know, I work now you know my work where my desk is place that I work. I have a TV like right frames I got my monitors that I had TV. I usually keep it on something during the day and since sometimes I sometimes wish I could just turn it on and I didn't even go through the dad clicking the terminal to much trouble so you think kids eating. They even put on in class or not. I was the big thing right you would always watch the evening class and I was like a huge thing doubt things are it's it's just a meeting and stick some people at Lacey way you know if they keep combining conferences and stuff and that eventually will remember the words will be like. I think it's think it's more of a college basketball in general just isn't what it used to be mean the game is change you got the want to dump on. This is different than it's different and will never be the same really.

I would never imagine if you like to like when I was a misguided, never imagine there be a time where I would not even know I did figure out Virginia Tech. One I saw was sorry that Mr. E click when I got I'm not as if I'm not paying attention. You neither lose that saying yes. It is the right that's fair.

I paid attention. I was in Disney World for cheer competition thought I was watching Thomas how did you place man, a third-place finish and I'm not a good flyer that girls can't keep me up 11 to 12 Ya want to watch every game I want to do play I watched. I caught the tail end. Some days I was in his like super invested as I have been before, but you would care to state yeah probably maybe yeah maybe next year so we say right that's the famous saying the wanted to give an update a couple weeks ago we talked about the fork truck you black rumor that the DMV had the force of our truck for the folks he did lessen the fire truck there was a molecular biologist at Asheville who got a vanity license plate and so we should get the word part F ART fark deLisa my complaint about the DMV came back in the DMV revoked the vanity plate while I got a lot of covers end up being like us also national outlets pick up that story so he revoked the revoked.

I was sad I was.

I don't know that we made a prediction that something we made a prediction, an official show prediction on that now. And if we did wouldn't say we did prove it is still saying that is arena national article and I got the quotes here, but out NADH is mentioned randomly. It mentioned randomly some license plates that were vanity plates that were out there and one of them was Mick blue is making you laugh thyroid that down because I want to remember was driving yesterday. I got behind a truck stop my kids off at school I got my truck and the license plate was beans but instead of an S. It was as the means beings with a cease and I couldn't figure out why Gowda got mad just like of you know I can order Toyota truck and maybe that was his nickname or something, but in my mind he just went to the DMV and I just decided on a whim to get a vanity play.

I asked him what it should be and he just said DMV's also miserly got it would asked me was like busy and I hope it's that meaningless ethical nickname being that this month when my kids nickname got to figure out which one well start today start to go. Maybe he's right. Well, as always, we we managed away sometime today but we got some real legal topics to to dig into and and some of them we talked about before, so we all know we all followed Bill Cosby criminal case when I was taken by think we did a whole shown thing we took a deep dive on a building site. Although the all Cosby all the time that you, Bill Cosby went to the Court of Appeals and they reversed it no Cosby's is homies. Please free, but his case went to the US Supreme Court.

Their oral arguments and as of the US Supreme Court had to weigh in on it about that. So a big write up in the national news outlet about we be talking about Roe V Wade we been talking about abortion, it's come up a lot. The Texas law and so what estates are kind of enticing anticipating that that Roe V Wade may be overturned may may be altered drastically. So you're seeing a wave of of state legislatures making laws restricting abortion in ways that are absolutely contrary to Roe V Wade balance of rings about that is something we haven't talked about before, back in 2020 Michigan Gov. was her name, Richard Witmer, Gretchen Whitmore with her Witmer is no more. There Witmer there was there was at kidnapping plot and I put that in quotes because the defense for a lot of the defendants involved in it is that they were entrapped. They are there, asserting an entrapment defense. Entrapment is an interesting thing to talk about. Serena spent some time talking about that. Those are three big legal issues were not tackled right will get a lot to get into the all the lawyers Josh Whitaker and Joe Hamer Whitaker and Hamer law firm 46 combined years experience in practicing attorneys here in the great state of North Anna managing partners of the firm offices in Raleigh, Garner, Clayton Goldsborough, Fuquay Marina and Gastonia. If you got your own legal situation and you need some answers. 800-659-1186.

Just leave your contact information and briefly what it's about and an attorney with Whitaker and Hamer will be in touch.

You can also email your questions to the program questions@theoutlawyour.com that's questions@theoutlawlawyer.com and as always, visit the website de Alba lawyer.com Joe 46 combined years experience offices in Raleigh, Garner, Clayton Goldsborough, wavering, and Gastonia. If you got your own legal situation that you're dealing with new got questions. We got a number for you 800-659-1186.

That's 800-659-1186. You can also email your questions to questions@theoutlawyour.com and on the call. Just leave your information, contact information, attorney with Whitaker Hamer will be in touch of John at I would know who has license plate. Mick Melissa has a like you to bid on and I feel like we should nickname semi at the Fry lead that is fraternity. It's not name a kid that's like many kids nickname adeptly with them being just different for the kid is good for the kid Magoo.

We just give it to her least favorite. So this this this segment's of Pennsylvania of the Cosby and we talked about this before and how much I love Bill Cosby and that I will let cancel culture to go Cosby away from me and we separate Bill Cosby as our firm is white with what he's accusing out now you know what, also a bit about what happened.

Yeah so again John sweet like you said we did a deep dive on this. We can look a whole entire episode and basically in Pennsylvania. The Cosby what we had is yet justice is that they rebuffed a request from the Pennsylvania prosecutors that were trying to revive sexual assault charges against Cosby tons of allegations against Cosby, but at issue specifically in this case you had Cosby being convicted of three counts of aggravated indecent assault for the 2004 drugging and molesting of Andrea con Stan was her name, but basically that the Pennsylvania Supreme Court throughout Cosby's convicted conviction.

They reason that he was.

He relied on a 2005 press release in which a prosecutor who it cited a lack of sufficient evidence had declined to file charges and so based on that statement. Cosby had gone on to provide evidence in a civil lawsuit that was brought against him by con Stan under the assumption and in the agreement that there wouldn't be criminal charges filed against him, and then that testimony in some of those things that he said under that that understanding actually were used against them later on and that was kind of the crux of the issue for me as an attorney, you know we we talk about while why we do this, share why we do thou lawyer needs to take items like this and I look at them like an attorney would be like if this came in the my office how I would dice up the Faxon and what I would advise as this seems obvious to me and it doesn't even get to what Cosby may or may not have done enough.

Cosby did the stuff that's that's terrible, but Cosby handed it, and whether you agree with us or not Bill Cosby had an agreement with the DA with the prosecutors that he would not be charged for this crime and relied on it for the civil case right and there was a civil settlement. There was a deposition all the stuff was under seal and so Cosby would not have done this. Had it not been for this agreement right to the end and did the new DA the new prosecutor came in, what, 10 years later for I don't member how long and how much time it passed just said yeah that agreements in place.

I don't care work were charging you with this crop and that's where it should've stopped by getting someone to the stepped in, then might say were way so I taxpayer money.

This is going to fail it at some point, but there was no uses big swimming to punish him for again file acts if if they are true and a course there was a trial because he said two years in jail. I think two years through every I think it was three but again and then then then he went to a went to the next level in the court system and they were instantly over instantly overturned like you can do this. This violates constitutional protections. No one made you agree not to prosecute him. You could've done it in through it out and then the state kept fighting and I don't understand what Pennsylvania kept that's what I would like. I would like someone to go on if it was the AG year, the DAs office. I don't know who in Pennsylvania kept pushing it forward to the US Supreme Court is that Sue did it in the US Supreme Court swatted down really quick like you can't you can't do this yet. I was feeling somebody should be criminally liable or civilly liable in Pennsylvania for continuing to push it forward. It just seems like a slamdunk to me I don't I don't I don't get it in my mind simply asked the question of like you did it in like why it's tough man because like you said, if you take the allegations as true I could steer the things he did are terrible.

He should be punished for those things so I don't want anyone to get confused and think were advocating like Bill Cosby is fantastic. What you did. That's not the point. From a legal standpoint.

All eyes were done it was right that that's the point you got these constitutional protections for reason and in and whether you would agree with me. No one who agrees with with what he allegedly did I think everybody agrees with with the Constitution. The way that it should those protections are necessary and you know they're necessary and so and there a good reason these there a good thing like they have purpose. Would you agree like that that yeah the agreement to not prosecute it to bring some of these things out it's necessary to the way that system functions the it's important that we protect that when you start studying criminal law we start studying criminal law like a wall school level or a masters level and you start reading always criminal law cases. The defendant has always done something or been accused of something horrible and allied a lot of times they may have even confessed to it admitted to it. And these are these are horrible coming rape you know hurting children and you know just the worst of the worst kind of things that happen, but somewhere along the line. The system has been violated their constitutional rights to to get to the in game tickets to get to a conviction or what have you answer me so I have these folks will will get alternate you will hear them talking immediately get off on a technicality or is this this this child murderer got off on a technicality but his technicalities or technicalities because they're important for reason it is not that the it's the fault of the system. You know that the failure to do whatever was necessary that there there are protections like he said they are there for a reason anybody wants to see justice not be done. No one wants to see people who don't terrible things walk free. But no one wants to see people who've done nothing be punished for it. And in that it it's a balance.

For that reason, one day want to spend some time talking about in that same vein you one thing that was disturbing to me and we stay real apolitical here. We don't really talk about Republicans.

We'll talk about Democrats but just observing legal things that happen if you followed the presidency of Donald Trump there at the end he died always attorneys to represent him on whatever you know falsified votes or whatever was going on, and so he retained attorneys and attorneys made filings on his behalf against Giuliani and I confirmed that other ladies name but you there in the process of you know their local bars and try and disbar them keep them from practicing law and I don't know all the facts is what we need to do a deep dive but but people asked me you know if if would your firm have represented Bill Cosby feeding two cities, horrible things, and now I stopped what yes everybody deserves a defense matter how despicable you think actions are, no matter how despicable you think the person is. Everyone deserves a defense attorney.

A defense adding it's hard for people who don't practice law for people don't spend a lot of time talking about the law. That's a hard pill to swallow for a lot of folks but otherwise we don't really have a justice system. We just have like a railroad she exactly exam so that's fine in just a jumping jasmine.

You guys are immersed in it every single day and you think about this Cosby situation and it's the shiny object I mean somebody wants to push that shiny object because everybody knew him knew them on TV and you're going to get a lot of attention. If you push that particular issue that involves Bill Cosby who everybody knows you know that we don't. We can get in the minds of the people that are putting it back out there that I can kinda see why hey that's that's Cosby and but from a legal standpoint you guys do it every single day yeah yeah and it's I really hope and I don't have Kaiser's got enough energy, enough of enough money is because he's in his 80s, is that right means that if you see him now manlike gate is gone out of you can tell high keys DAs not the same day as his eyes, is because of the girl's eyes and he's got the cane NEC sterling it around, but I hope that I would love to see someone hold whoever's liable Atty. Gen. DA whoever in Pennsylvania is a waste of taxpayer and to me it just seems open and shut like we talked and we talked one week about one of things you have to have his attorney to push things for to litigate is you have to have a controversy right there is ever any controversy here that political pressure man think that something mortgage that this is the shiny object there's a ton of political pressure you got cancel culture and it with you like these people have law degrees. They practice law. They understand the law and you know it should be obvious that there's nothing here and I am with you on that completely but I haven't heard a lot only that should this is been my personal thoughts maybe or something else out there which is why there is not a national discussion but if you if you don't have these protections. If you don't have this counterweight then then people get swept up in emotion. People get swept up in the end. Again the horrible horrible facts if taken to be true. People get consumed by that but this should never got this for sure or shooting charge and like 1992 exactly charge and then like that's that's a great point man because I cannot seem don't charge that's not the point. All defeat charge and what don't handle it this way until you knock in its origin, solicit its statements for the civil purpose, and then come back and and and try to do with it because it's a slippery slope & all the time and that can be you set the precedent that's okay. It can get used in a similar fact pattern where you know that you like you said, people get railroaded by essays it fair to say that Cosby will come back will do a deep dive on because it's probably in been around for a while.

Yeah, I think I could be nothing that could be fair to say that when you point out the following loss whenever said slippery slope. They all taught assay like three times and slope to crutch I could give you a snack. Charlie is slow precedent to be addicted to pop towards like me shall pop tarts and I began the lawyers Joshua Kern Johanna Whitaker Hamer law firm.

The power behind this program to the managing partners there. The pricing attorneys here in the great state of North Carolina that got offices in Raleigh Garner Clayton Goldsboro Fuquay Marina and Gastonia and they got 46 combined years variance. We know that there probably some of you out there that are having your own legal situation you got questions.

We got a phone number for you 800-659-1186. That's 800-659-1186. Just leave your contact information briefly with calls about an attorney with Whitaker Hamer will be in touch. You can also email your questions to the program questions@theoutlawyou.com and we certainly want to visit the website. The outlaw lawyer.com back a little bit more after this.

It's New York Times article on Roe versus Wade again offices in Raleigh Garner Clayton Goldsboro Fuquay Marina and Gastonia.

If you got your own legal situation right now you got questions, I got a phone number for you 800-659-1186 at 800-659-1186.

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It's a great one. The outlier.com John Morgan at next and we talked about this before. We'll talk about it, for I don't know how long, but you know a big legal conversation in our country has been and will be abortion. So we spent a lot of time talking about Roe V Wade, where the settled law is right. You know what the what wrote Roe V Wade says you know abortion is legal. States can limited in certain ways out there strong protections in place right now with federal law on all what states can do, how they can limit access how they can limit you just just a bunch of limitations in and that's been the settled law since the 70s and so now this past year we got a new Supreme Court that you can argue has come a conservative tilt and I have heard several cases already owned on not not directly overturning Roe V Wade. They heard several cases that will certainly at least weaken Roe V Wade if if the court comes down like some people speculate will come down and I saw a big article. I think it was the New York Times vessel. I assaulted the articles really well done assignment a lot of states, jumping the gun like right now the Supreme Court has heard oral arguments on a couple cases and we talked about in Joe, the Texas law down the Texas state law which which looks the new member that went to members.

Yes, the Texas state law. We again we we deep down so many things we we done a couple of stories on that it and basically what that law try to do was essentially circumvent the big the constitutional requirements in it and it basically deputized citizens in a way on any, when around the prohibition of state action and and gave individuals of vehicle to this civilly to to enjoin. Basically abortion so it was kind of a we talked about how it was a very unique way to go about prohibiting something that and it all made it, just try that circumvent the constitutional requirement altogether and get around it in a in a super unique method yet time and asked okay I feel this way.

I don't like the mechanism right whether you are pro-abortion or your for abortion.

I think most Americans probably fall not limited abortion in the middle – middle sure and then when I hear say abortion is right or abortion is wrong word were just here to tell you about what legally is is transpiring when the Texas state law. I'm really comfortable with it, not because it attempts to limit abortion, but like you said the unique way it tries to punish people who are administering that constitutional right right see that adding a Texas state law you could sue a doctor who performed an abortion even though abortion is protected as constitutionally protected and that Dr. can't face any federal penalties for doing it under the state law I could sue him if I decide I like the fact he was performing abortion. He gave me an avenue to sue him for damages. Or you could sue somebody who takes someone to have an abortion. Donner, the secretary at the abortion clinic so just and opened up this avenue to punish people for doing something that was otherwise constitutionally protected and I don't like that because I could easily be applied to anything Jan's gun sales right if you're in if you live in a state that's, anti-gun you have a second amendment right to possess a gun would say that state will say California decides okay what Texas can do this to the constitutional right of abortion were to do its people are still guns you point me in that's that's the thing with with you there may be a few look we don't like to look at things in terms of new conservative versus liberal we don't like to dissect things that way. But if you look at those traditional perspectives and traditionally a conservative is going to be very much against abortion. You may have a conservative person who looks at at this kind of wacky way to prohibit abortions is a good thing because they think abortion is bad and this is stopping abortions, but along the same lines. Generally speaking, that's the same type of person who's is good be staunch gun advocates and gun rights advocates like you said the same exact mechanism of action can be used, to go after gun rights as well so it's it's one of those things where it may be either.

You may think it's a good thing.

But then it can be turned around. They can be used against you. And that's why I'm with you I hate the way that they went about it because it can where does it stop well and piggyback on our Cosby conversation. Again, you may things cosmic is accused of a horrible but if there's a system yet there's a way to circumvent you know the constitutional protections in place to keep you from you know the Fifth Amendment from incriminating yourself. If you just skip over that in me is you you think Cosby should be in jail.

Best that's this Texas law to mail your your skipping over constitutional protections during game as people should be allowed to get abortions and that's fine if you believe that but getting there. That way is is not fine if you're in you believe in the Constitution and you believe in the judiciary, and you believe in separation of powers than this Texas state law adding initiative and struck down already like it is been in place this long. I just don't think it's a good way to achieve their goal. Lighting is a bad precedent and the longer it survives but the worse off we are. But in response. This is been a big national conversation on abortion law which I think you rebuy pre-much thought was pretty much settled now is not something that gets but doing so get a lot of states are limiting abortion access weeks. You know nothing. A lot of the states are doing 1510 weeks limits that are well under what Roe V Wade, the law of the land allows is a lot of states are just jumping the gun, and in making these laws that will get struck down when we I mean I don't know for weeks or months away, but at some point really get a very big Supreme Court decision always abortion cases that they been hearing this. This this session so there's a pile be put in one opinion if they limit Roe V Wade in the state is the state laws will stay in effect, but if they don't limit Roe V Wade and all these are to get a return immediately. Yeah, and it's like you know we talked about the Texas law extensively. We talked about a few others, but it's interesting man and we could speculate on why you know why so many states are passing this. You know what appears to be at least by the existing standard, overly restrictive legislation and I don't know now that I have a thought maybe they look at the makeup of the court and again we don't like to look at the court in terms of political leanings, but it I don't know if if the states are trying to force that issue know that it's hard to say but were to see there's gonna be a week. This is forcing the hand over of some sort of ruling in some sort of further elaboration on that Roe V Wade ruling so we will hear you. The court's position you know whether it's upheld whether there some kind of modification of the standard having rented see something you just do people notice it and we talked about separation of powers, the balance, if the Supreme Court decide something Roe V Wade that as a nation, you know, we don't like the can always be a federal law to her right so it was not like the US Supreme Court is is the be-all and end-all. They are on the things that come before them, but they don't they don't make laws and and so they can always be a federal law regarding abortion, there's good, they can always be changes, preempt that, but again we'll talk about this a lot more US Supreme Court is an issue some big big time decisions on abortion again in the next few months before the end of the year so that'll be some talk about yeah for sure.

We'll talk about it and it's like you said, you know, I think if you look at it as it stands today, which is what we really have to do is you have to looking at. We have precedent for a reason and if you look at what the court has ruled previously, I think it's fairly clear that that promotes all the laws we talked about would know their own constitutional right now as they said as they stand currently. So this is an interesting route to push that issue for sure Roe versus Wade is not going away. Folks, it will be a topic of discussion on future shows the LLR Josh Whitaker and Joe Hamer I Morgan factor consumer advocate. You can find Josh and Joe Whitaker Hamer law firm to the managing partners. Their pricing attorneys here in North Carolina 46 combined years experience between these two and again offices pre-much everywhere we call the Starbucks of of lawyers for Raleigh Garner Clayton Goldsboro Fuquay Arena and Gastonia. If you got a legal question that you're facing, and you need some answers. Here's a number 4800 659-1186. That's 800-659-1186 you get in touch. Just leave your contact information.

Briefly, what the calls about an attorney with Whitaker Hamer will be in touch. You can also email us questions@theballiare.com will answer those questions on future programs and always visit the website. The outlier.com coming up for men facing federal charges of conspiring to kidnap Michigan Gov. Gretchen Witmer back in 2020. That's coming up next on the outlier. There managing partners there to get pricing attorneys here in the great state of North Carolina we get into legal topics. You can have your own legal questions.

Maybe something you're going through.

You need answers I got a number 4800 659-1186. That's 800-659-1186 just leave contact information briefly what the calls about an attorney will be in touch either with Whitaker and Hamer always you can email your questions to the program questions@theoutlawlawyer.com Joe Memorial next to stories on to talk about this segment one and entail attention to this when it happened but you know it was kind of a crazy summer in 2020. There's a lot of different things going on a lot of stuff happening in Michigan with BLM protest, and then they had a lot of pandemic that was a state that a lot of pandemic lockdown crazy.

It was no less. I think I think like our kids learn about that.

Like we learned about like 1960 yeah right that's gonna be there between their 1960 is crazy time over the stories that came up was there was the FBI foiled reported kidnapping attack attempt of a Michigan Gov. Gretchen Witmer who was depending on how you felt about the pandemic, and how you felt about lockdown was either really really popular or really really do right now is very few like she's doing an okay job task that you're terrible. I forgot about the universe the story you know she lockdown everything right at Michigan's upper Peninsula is a big vacation area. However, this and so she lockdown everything like I can remember what it was, basically, if you had a second home she's leaking you can go to your second as they had a second home. I guess her and her husband in upper Peninsula as her husband called the Marina that service this like a river. They were, and he was like I'm the governor's husband in your to put my boat in the water and I don't care about in these restrictions, you know, but the minister I I'm just trying to wrap my mind around a group of people sitting around thinking it might be a good idea to plot to kidnap a sitting governor that I think I did hear much about the story I heard a happy iOS terrible. No one was that to happen no matter how much you like or dislike the governor not rooting for them to get she were kidnapped by all the things I wish you the bad news but I did hear much else from the story and S&L were falling into the point where some of these defendant some of the people charged in in this attendant and doing air quotes. If you're listening to the radio like attempt and quotation marks is why these defendant summa pled guilty and it got sinister thing one or possibly two of the pled guilty and the other defense or augmented. I was entrapped as basically they're there, alleging there was a 3F3 or four FBI informants involved the FBI informant started this chat grouping and put out an ad for help in doing this in an and it's only maybe there were some missteps in the government. I felt that funny man, but it's actually a great list, so this informant, these informants could have attracted these these guys to come and talk about this attempt, but I guess that's part of the argument is like a our guys were you're the one who gave you the FBI you created the situation and yet they should of been going along with you, but they were instrumental to work in the formation of this plan is. There is three FBI informants. I guess involved in a ball left the FBI going to charge for doing something drugs or something, but there is a number with the FBI.

They all left and they're not great. Still having some form of transgressions right it's always FBI informants help put this case together or gone and so that attorneys represent. These defendants also very serious charges.

Or, looking at it now and saying wait a minute, what exactly did my God, do you, how did they get involved relate entrapped by the government and entrapment's defense that you don't really see often it doesn't work, often skewered is because the government can can do a lot to try to get information on on an active criminal enterprise is a good exactly we want, but there is a there is a tipping point where the government becomes maybe the primary bad actor yeah trying to get people into something like this and and so here I is just interesting because it I'm going to go to trial right, there's been no plea deal in federal court. A lot of times there.

There are plea deals but it sounds like this is going to go to trial and this entrapment defense which is again not successful. Often is there another ace of spades or because at the base are so in layman's terms. In layman's terms you're saying or they're saying I should their defense is saying that they were nudged in the direction of the kidnap guy think it's more than another, which I think I know, I think it nudges is arguably permissible, but there is there's a line where it becomes.

You know that where it becomes entrapment and it's a difficult, difficult thing to prove some planning likely adding a set one of the guys like look at. They figured out where she lived in a you know they were there. I guess that you got some supplies. But when you actually lay out the federal government's argument on this thing. I just read a couple articles I've seen what you would see it trial or what you'd see if you were defending but to me it looks kinda weak when you lay it all out there is fear that but I know I'm a federal judge. I don't know but that's another one really watching as I thing that's interesting of the entrapment defense works you just don't see that play out.

No, no you don't and it'll be interesting to see it play out and to see that the approach and see whether it successful, much more successful than the plot to kidnap the governor was 2020 make people do weird things in these these people purely special dispute defense is that exactly is where the town wouldn't be interesting. Like if we just flash forward 20 years and look back and how society is viewing what we went through 20 2020 we are to explain in the art explain to people. 20 years ago.

Sure there's no storyline talk about even fallen closer to me. Yes, so we we got Ed Cain Velasquez UFC fighter reach the peak level of this board.

I mean it was a period of time where he was considered like one of the pound for pound best ever do it very, very successful. By all accounts it sweetheart of a guy like very well liked by his peers, which is it's weird to think of someone beat sweetheart of a guy, but by all accounts a good person arrested recently for multiple attempted murder charges. So when this news came out. You know that they were the initial story was just that he had basically fired on a vehicle with people in it and he had hit it. I think you hit one of the individuals very confusing story. If you know anything about Cain Velasquez and so that was the initial report lot people come out and support them. Turns out that you note that apparently there was an individual who I don't know the exact fact, I think worked at a daycare with one of his kid and had light for an extended period of time molested one of his his young children like an extended period of time that person I think was was arrested, charged, and then ultimately released and then he decided to did, take the law into his own hands and go, vigilante style and unfortunately fire on the vehicle and it didn't even hit the individual that he was he was going after think hit that person stepfather but on wedding interesting so far.

It is an emissions earlier as he's being held in a course three counts of attempted murders what it sounds like the charges are probably some more charges but no veil yet no veil and that's that that's the thing he seen time and of of high profile people you know the celebrities you see five people who know him have written in support of him receiving mail basically. So there's been a large no groundswell of support for him to to be released as a mean, it's hard to say he's a he's a flight risk. You know it's it's it's it's very I think I think I don't spin my day-to-day and criminal law, but we do hate a lot of criminal law firm to be denied bail.

It is a big step and a flight risk is one of the things I get into it now danger to yourself or the community that we have that me at the just another attempted murder. I do not air close yet does it translate itself.

A man that's a tough one because it we talk about these terrible things that people do we advocate for the system. How important that system is and is. It's about as tough of a thing to say that on when you're talking about someone molesting children, abusing children and it really becomes difficult and as a pheasant, a legal analyst you could step back and you can say is you should do this. Let the system play out, but it has like a father to Diana and is very easy to understand how you like it's it's you can see it. I understand that monster monster exactly what yeah man, it's the any way that was it make sense to me is why shoot out of Mikey just grabbed this man is late in the day and you know but but but that managers and want to keep an eye on as well that the Nobel part is this the most you looking at it from a legal analyst and not a father not a victim and defendant but that denying veil to someone who doesn't appear to be a flight risk doesn't appear like using a harm anybody else ratably else. Clearly there is a clearly emotive know I don't get it. This around me of that we were going back to our long abandoned legal movie tournament asking to come back in these days on the kill. You can't comment on I have ever seen in the basically a time to kill with Samuel L Jackson playing the part of Cain Velasquez check that movie out was denied bail in there now, he may need. He gets arrested and like racial tension that's involved in this as well basically is. It's like really rate he kills the people responsible some of them can Matthew McConaughey's attorney on the great movie attorneys of all time. He gets off actually interest in watching one all right. We are gonna wrap up the program immediately following this break. The LLI is Josh Whitaker and Joe Hamer. You can find that Whitaker and Hamer law firm you got your own legal situation you got questions. Here's a number for it. You can call 800-659-1186.

That's 800-659-1186 justly contact information briefly with calls about an attorney with Whitaker and Hamer will be in touch.

You can also email your questions to the program questions at the outlaws, are your.com back right after this we have Josh Whitaker and Joe Hamer with us Whitaker Hamer law firm is where you can find the managing partners there, the price here in the great state of North Carolina and 40 Patrick consumer advocate of 46 combined years experience between these two and offices in Raleigh, Garner, Clayton Goldsborough, Fuquay Marina and Gastonia, and you may be having a legal situation of your own and you got questions about a phone number for you 800-659-1186 at 800-659-1186 leave your contact information briefly with calls about attorney with Whitaker and Hamer will be in touch or back to wrap it up, guys.

It's been a fun show that we got a couple little things to talk what I wanted to do. I haven't done it yet missing Batman.

I see it's DD Batman yes I've seen the Batman so it's it's just a really it's just a reboot is the yet to read it's it's basically a reboot. They don't do a whole lot about you, normally with Batman movies you get the light flashback to his parents.

Dina flicked the seminal moment and we would do that.

They only date they reference it but it's more it's just a complete reboot, so there's no real continuity there's no reference to like a larger extended universe.

It's all self-contained. There again, I do and will spoil it for any bites on if it's pattern payments summarize the plot. Is there a bad guy. His early handbag.

There is there is there is a several so you got that the Riddler is like the main bad guy in several different tickets, dark movie may not think the kids, regretted it almost instantly. Someone told me not to take our little guy gets close to a it's close to our it's very close to so there's actually F bombs at the drop that's usually like a dead giveaway to give them one for PG-13 of innate, they use it like early her for several digits. It's good it's good it's good it's it's dark and and Batman is played by Robert pads and twilight inside every time I see him.

I think twilight never saw.

He sent a couple other movies that were more like that. He's more serious and and that will take that twilight takes that in your mouth that's so they did the Christian Bale voice he doesn't he doesn't different yet he's got his own voice similar but different.

It's not quite as like, but I all right Batman to me a very good Batman even. But is a lot of persuading in the movie, you know. The Bruce Wayne's real sad and like he supposed to be like a billionaire playboy type of thing in my head and it's not really like a sad boy, the only true Batman is Michael yeah you know Michael Keaton is reprising the role of Ryan like a multi-multi map yet that's on the six I'm a big flashback but I'm see that what I heard stories of Michael Keaton is like a time is like on S&L is like on the on the set of like a different movie heavy for her to sign when he needs like like people up like he'll whisper to you know I'm a congenital accent whispered that he just goes on Batman sale, say 20 times a day.

He had a that is movies, not funny at all. There's no humor. It's very dark. I say it's good it's good it's long and it's like I want to say it's right at three hours 30 time you get close to three hours. It's a lengthy good man deathly good different serious. Now my question is if Michael Keaton is your Batman is more Michael Keaton or the fact that Jack Nicholson's the bag which I did and he is the only Joker I will accept no other Heath ledger Heath ledger was good.

It was no dear and let give you that like not getting here. Get out there that think you're done with that, I think that's it that's gone think it's high I grew up in May. Maureen probably did this to work close in age and I grew up on the TBS reruns right as I watched more community and watch threes company believes the rerun though Batman Adam West Batman Adam West Batman no muscle tone needed. This is as far removed from West Batman is a deposit that Adam West Batman.

It has a place in our society like if you still still entertaining if superheroes were PJ and the deeper pitting the muscle tone he didn't need that is not a lot of this is there is really an action movie committee is there's action but it's more of like it almost liken it to the movie seven. I get a weird thing to do lately.yes, very dark. It's dark yet start silencing every reset is meaning what you said in his dark yet dark it's it's it's like a lighter seven. The Riddler is very much like dark man.

He's not like playing pranks on Pete wishes murdering people.

Basically, very unlike the Riddler and Adam was very, very unlike Jim carries. Do you know the name and the passion forever, who played Riddler on Adam West Batman no man I know that seasonal American is he is right as I don't know his name is and I don't know it either. If anyone should notice you that well. I beef up Monica's Batman Sago South facing South take my 12 year old me, my wife, my talking about Emily my tenure at six-year-old and uses very confusing, but 32nd plug for the firm media we are real attorneys with amazing partners of Whitaker and Hamer.

We don't mention it enough words got information, but we can help you we got our attorneys to practice real estate family law, criminal law, civil litigation offices all over the place. That's our goal as much as Morgan said, but were happy to help you with your legal needs.

One of our attorneys, we happy to meet with you will be happy to talk with you if you follow Morgan's all right there you go, the outliers just Whitaker Joe Hamer Whitaker came to law firms we can find them during the week and focus their pricing attorneys here in North Carolina managing partners of the firm. If you got your legal situation. Call this number 800-659-1186 leader contact information briefly what the calls about an attorney with Whitaker Hamer will be in Texas 800-659-1186 with a divine attorney licensed to practice law in North Carolina. Some of the guests appearing on the show. Maybe license North Carolina attorneys discussion of the show was meant to be general in nature and in no way should the discussion be interpreted as legal advice, legal advice can only be renewed once an attorney licensed in the state in which you live at the opportunity to discuss the backs of your case with you. The attorneys appearing on the show are speaking in generalities about the law, North Carolina, and how these laws affect aboriginal Carolinian. If you have any questions about the content of the show, contact us directly