George Floyd, Derek Chauvin, Caniglia v Strom, Aaron Roger's Contact

Coming up about wall lawyer were talking, George, for their children. The big Supreme Court case adjusting down to Maglio, the Strom and Aaron Rodgers in his contract status in Green Bay.

Stay tuned. Now Supreme Court has said is wrong on this and this is what you have taken the facts think about him and you'll jump to a man your thou will and now outlaw lawyer Josh Whitaker your log into outlaw. Outlaw your that's right, Josh Whitaker is here and were to talk all things legal. I Morgan Patrick your consumer advocate Josh welcome and certainly exciting time for show and let's just get some background welcome, I'm Josh Whitaker that outlaw lawyer and I'm here today to talk to you about the law, how statutes cases the Supreme Court does all affect our day-to-day lives. I am an attorney I practice in North Carolina.

I'm here today with my guest Mr. Damien McCullers, who is also an attorney below a B him in first episode was going to exciting so me and Damien. The theory behind RR that outlaw lawyer comes from a big fan of old Westerns and out in the old West outlaws were the ones that reacted poorly, reacted too quickly did things without thinking them through. They needed money. They robbed a bank they needed alcohol.

They stole the alcohol that outlaw was the bad guy and me and Damien have been lifelong friends and then we like to sit down and work on different sides of the political spectrum, but were pretty reasonable attorneys who been at it for a long time and it's almost like now if you taken fax and you think about him and you don't jump to a party line. You will have an instant retort or an instant opinion you actually take the time to think about stuff and be reasonable in your that outlaw things a flip-flop SS for the named outlaw lawyer came from.

So me and my guest today, Damien and future guest of the show were all attorneys and were all sitting down to analyze things like we would a case you take the fact pattern, look at how the law will think different things always treat each situation like it's coming for the Supreme Court, and so that's kind of our thought process on the show, we won't be reasonable. We want to be informative and we want to be interesting and so that's kind of our goal little bit about me, just as your guest out there in the podcast land we were allowed partners for 17 years and I think it's important that you guys know just kind of how we formed a friendship in our relationship and and just kind of what the dynamics are we wet my pants back porch and 2004 sat down and decided after law school that we want to start a firm and we kinda did that we had no money at the time and no money zero dollars we went. That is the funny story to tell everybody we went to our first set of statutes were from the north on surplus. That's right 50 books backing up even more so me and Damien both were at Fred J. Carnage is frequently middle school I met in the in the early 90s we grip on the mean streets of Fred J Carson school and then I didn't see Damien and low below high school.

I was Everett Garner went to state undergrad and I want to know, the central University.

We met back at at Campbell Law school on the first day of loss. Place a gel together in a room so they can see what the deal and laugh and me and Amy cannot figure out yeah figure all this out, but what you want to graduate from law school. We wanted to form a law firm that was back in 0404, which doesn't seem like it was yesterday when by yet we had no money and had a pretty good idea we knew how you want to treat people we we knew we knew what we wanted to do. We wanted to be able to be in the courtroom able to help people transactions and crying and be of service to people in the and not tenant still feel guys that tenant stereotypical things that people think about when they think of lawyers. I think we did a good job of that. We have some fun and great practice still have a great practice as far as Whitaker and Hamer burial offer for life.

So definitely check them out.

After that, you know, tenant built into five locations. Raleigh Garner Fuquay Clayton and Goldsboro right so been weatherized and fun – I take as I just want to jump in and say it's gonna be a lot of fun and I guess interesting to get into these discussions because there are so many cases that are out there that we see in the news almost on a daily basis that you know when you guys can, use your paintbrush and talk about those cases for our local listeners. I think it's a go a long way just to cannot help explain some of things that we see every day in the news. I agree with you more in the first thing I want to talk about is something that everybody's been talking about for a long time, but I wanted us to talk about. Spend some time with Derek job in trial yet and weekend and talked about it most of sales discount at LinkedIn just kind of weird things going and how they're going and I didn't want to make just the point that you and I will we have the discussions were not having them for one side or another were literally just kind of sitting down looking at the facts and just kinda making a determination based on our legal training as to what we see is right. Interestingly, when lawyers talk about something like this is you really do your best to set the socially charged aspects which are which are are important in their own right, as an attorney. He said there's a side you look at what happened you look at the video you try to look at the testimony at me and then Damien is has grizzled grade trial attorneys. We took time to come out forecast what everybody was going to do and it was interesting on a professional level to see it play out, and so at the time of her recording you that Jerry is already had their say and and Mr. Kevin was found guilty on all counts. Interesting Damien on if you had a chance to look at it, but the on the federal level so that you note on the federal level. There is, but what was that charge so it was a civil rights violation of leave that has just come down. There was an indictment I want to say a day or so ago that it was not just for us to show than surgeons or any of the office as well just saying that there was a civil rights violation as relates to his freedom when I say here is that means Mr. Floyd did not essentially be brutalized, but it's it's going to be interesting. To me there's just a lot there's a lot of moving pieces. There's a lot going on with the discounted amino again like he said it's interesting from a professional standpoint to watch it unfold. Just because we're looking at it strictly from that professional standpoint without when I watch how much thing about this thing out is a good question when I was licensed trial. I saw the prosecution when they were asking witnesses to watch the video and course testify to what they've seen which which is in turn asked which you won't you'll them to testify to what they saw what happened when I saw them testify to a lot.

How did that make me feel that this was a case right of member seeing this a lot where the prosecution would reach out and ask people would that would it make you feel like an and you know and in trials and everyday trials lots on that that kind of stuff is important.

I kind of stuff doesn't come in for very much but I know if you saw that I saw a little bit of it.

It's is kind of up to know the gatekeeper there to what comes and what doesn't.

But yes, all that it's I guess from a from a prosecutor standpoint you want that to come in. If you trying to drive a point home. And of course from a defense attorney standpoint, you don't. If it damage and to your client so you kinda want to object if you can give your grounds and tell your basis and rules of evidence of why it shouldn't. And, go from there to the defense of the defense on this when they they may made a motion to change venue before the trial started, which was denied. I think the judge's theory on denying that was this trials anything that I remove it in Minnesota right. Get the same level of fairness no matter where we move this in Minnesota but I got denied and I know there's a motion there's a motion I get reference motion for new trial or a motion so there was an appeal.

I think the appeal was saying that there was errors made by the judiciary, but for me, will see.

I haven't had an opportunity to actually read the appeals are necessary when speak on it because I just don't know that there definitely has been an appeal made and it's alleging errors of law. I believe I said that three other officers or trials are still ending there couple months and I think the set for August, and I would be surprised if you see possibly some type of arrangement ordeal may just given that there's been a finding of guilty. In that case went all the way to verdict it would not surprise me. I mean, they may very well decide they do. Still another day in court, but it would not surprise me if if you see some form of a plea agreement and I would say just isn't a great opportunity that to kinda say just as well and again just as being in keeping people informed. It is not just Derek Sullivan has been indicted federally. It is that the officers as well right so there is there's a lot again like a said there's a lot of moving pieces. There's a lot happening just, a lot to kinda keep your eyes on and will keep talking about this when you meet with you every week at the same time and this is something Ricky watching as this is this is interesting for attorneys. It's interesting for society as a whole and how everything plays out as attorneys it's it's very interesting you're looking to outlaw lawyer Josh Whitaker is your Halston folks, we are to talk legal each and every week if you've got a question for the program. Here's the number 800-659-1186 at 800-659-1186 if you have a legal question for Josh Whitaker and of course Whitaker and Hamer you can call that same number and leave a message. 806 591-186-8800 659-1186 coming up on the yellow lawyer within a discuss Consiglio the strong that would be when your wife tells the police they can take your guns and you do not agree. Stay tuned. You were talking legal each and every week Josh take away. I think Morgan so next up for us to spend a minute talking about nuclear strong so this is a Supreme Ct., United States Supreme Court case. The oral arguments were heard. A couple weeks ago, Supreme Court came back with a unanimous decision it will tell you what that decision is. But Damien when you memorize facts so actually pretty interesting. I am pretty sure someone out there but I guess Lynn has been there.

Mr. and Mrs. Conigliaro were in a heated discussion. Some may say an argument and Mr. Cerniglia, probably to his detriment, and I certainly don't advocate. Anyone doing this went and retrieved his firearm placed it on the table and said just shoot me now and get it over with and I think it's important to say so. This is not a smart thing, absolutely not.

And I'm sure it was a poor attempt at humor probably born out of frustration and I certainly wasn't there and I don't know.

But again, not a great thing to do, especially in a heated argument between spouses so very stupid thing today, but I think it's important not a crime is not a crime. That's right." As far as I know in Rhode Island right facts and Its Importance Took Pl. in Rhode Island is to place in Rhode Island. I am not licensed in Rhode Island. I have no idea what the law is over Rhode Island.

I would venture to tell you that if this were to have enough.

Come on.

I don't know that that would be a crime, simply placing your firearm on the table.

What happened next. Afterwords I believe Mr. Conigliaro had gone out to become a cloth maybe once he returned. I believe the Mrs. I contacted law enforcement. Just checking on his whereabouts. I believe yeah I think if asked if wife left. So after he did that, the wife left and she spent the night somewhere else and he stayed and when she came back he wasn't there something that's how the officers got called a welfare check, call you will fix it. Just got a chicken on the ligature.

Everything is okay.

Is it all having the officer showed up. He was on the porch. They seems like at some point they make there is a threat to take your take any firearms because they were worried he was having a psychiatric episode right and he agreed to go the hospital and get checked out.

So they would not take his wet spring and I think actually that's probably important I believe part of the discussion based on what I've been able to read is that his agreement to get tested essentially been checked out was with the understanding that his farms would not be taken. I don't know if there's authority to do that again in Rhode Island just to say hey I'll go get checked out. Just a signifier but there was some form of communication between law enforcement and Mr. Conigliaro about that which is probably this is great point to say our law enforcement has huge huge job to do, sometimes in dealing with what could be a mental health crisis, as opposed to an actual law enforcement issue. They those men and women in uniform to put it on every day. They do a great job and don't necessarily always get a fair shake doesn't say that they don't make mistakes as I went on to say that I don't sound like I'm picking one side or another, but I think just as it relates to these particular facts, you don't know what you're dealing with at that point. Is it something that happened that is legal is it a mental health crisis that this person needs help and of course it sounds like they wanted him to get help if he was having that type of crisis. So I mean there's a lot going on just in this writing is very important because we are not trying to paint, law enforcement officers as the bad guy. It's unfortunate because a lot of the Supreme Court cases that we talk about have a law enforcement elements, this was this was new. New rewrites and you know we as we get rid through the rest of the facsimile think about what the Supreme Court did here. This is kind of an odd situation where I think the officers were doing the best they could and it didn't discount the lint self back to doing the best they can with the factual situation. I want to make sure that I kinda flush out and say whatever a decision is court laws doesn't necessarily mean that people may personally agree with whatever that is an attic that cuts both ways. A lot of times when I'm in a lot of times they did to be all the time, lawyers, prosecutors, judges, everybody. This involves, in the criminal justice element in the system they're looking to follow the rule of the law. Whatever our legislature in the Gen. assembly or the Senate and House have put out as the law there.

Following that, whether they like it, personally or not so I think that's important for laypeople to know that that's what we do day in day out as attorneys as prosecutors as judges. Whatever your role is in that system you're following the Constitution you're following the law is what your old says that you're going to follow the Constitution you're gonna follow the law doesn't mean that you necessarily like you know you agree with that. It means that you're going to do what you're sworn to do reading on the same line reading into the facts more. It looks like he laughed and maybe even by ambulance. I can't remember, but he left psych Mr. Conigliaro left his psych eval is wife. This is justifiably sound like maybe still terrified. She did leave the house.

She she asked. I think she's probably asking these officers for help. Please help me.

She invited him into the house which there can certainly enter she was on the same issues and owners is on the she's doing consents on his officers haven't done anything wrong and I think this is their solution to help a terrified wife confiscating his wet grant they get in the house they confiscate his weapons. He passes his psych eval. He comes back as I did it.

I'm done things good. I was wonder if you had to get a psych evaluation is not to make light of it, but I pass it seems like they should young a certificate or what do you mean what you you you you.

Now you're treading into hippo violations and all kinds of stuff.

So you know that there there are a number of facets that come along with that.

So do you. I don't know that.

And I'll talk about me personally just to say that I don't know, and I haven't had to have a psych eval but I don't know that I would want to have to present documentation to you that I had one simply because you demanded that I just don't know that that's your hero.

I saw Simpsons. I've seen some Cincinnati. My day is a Simpsons where Homer is. Since I don't know what you call this psychiatric evaluation pleasure hospital unit is in there with a guy thinks is Michael Jackson. I believe that this event will Homer's going there to visit. He is trapped in there and he following its release in the way they tell him that he's not insane as he gets a stamp on the sand is not insane Dr. but Mr. Conigliaro got a stamp he shows up and he is he is okay. That's kinda what were doing was a Mr. Conigliaro sues saying his fourth amendment right was violated and what is the fourth amendment so that you have the right to perform, not to be unreasonably certain ceased to since that's right near your home is your castle and you have a right in his exceptions to this right you I see you have a right that a government official can come in and search EU confiscates you certain things against you, there's tons of exceptions, the Supreme Court is carved out and that makes sense if the law enforcement think you're doing something illegal negative in a war from the judiciary from a judge. They can interspace always exceptions, but here really having his exceptions and applied the officers probably shouldn't have done this again. They were setting out to be evil.

They were setting out to do anything wrong but arguably I would say that the officers should not taken his fire will the court considered right and so that leaves us up to what the Supreme Court actually said the Supreme Court has said that unanimously is wrong. This should not happen. That's important as well because of course you have different viewpoints on the bench specifically within the Supreme Court, but again this is a unanimous decision. We would, as lawyers would say this is well settled law and in the made it clear as to what their position is as it relates to that going for this. I just real quick so the officers their justification was caretaking exception caretaker exception and that was argued, believe that caretaker exception literally was had only been applied to automobiles at the time was an impact in the case. I just read amending about things and impounded automobile right so it specifically dealt with automobiles and had never been applied to firearms. That case did allow officers if there was an independent automobile fact pattern officer could go in and confiscate a weapon that they found right you are tuned into outlaw lawyer Josh Whitaker and currently our guest on the program is Jamie McCullers. All the talk is about Conigliaro versus Strom in Rhode Island. Great discussion. If you have any questions about this case or if you would like to ask a question of our lawyers each and every week.

Here's the number 800-659-1186 at 800-659-1186 if you have a legal question. You can direct that to Whitaker and Hamer 800-659-1186 800-6591 86, noble yellow lawyer.

I know I said I would do it but I don't want to.

What happens when you enter a contract and then decide you don't want to comply, no show.

You can call 800-659-1186 at 800-659-1186 your outlaw lawyer asked Josh Whitaker our guest in studio today is Damien McCullers I Morgan Patrick your consumer advocate and working to get into contracts talking contracts absolutely 11. The law affects everything sports is 100% contracts hundred percent contract is no different than if it's actually just really contract based absolutely positively beyond the shadow of a doubt contract based their tutor to make stories that I saw this week that all revolve around contracts and in first. Did you see Aaron Rodgers on Jeopardy.

I didn't see Aaron Rodgers on Jeopardy and he was good guy and he was against me as a Cowboys fan. I must say go in Rogers, specifically as it relates to Jeopardy what your Cowboys fan you know all about pain.

I do know all about pain, Cowboys fan myself and it's a native now hello there was very very good. He was absolutely delightful to watch on Jeopardy Douglas Trebek cancer sucks. Rogers did a great, great job on interviewing multiples the Jeopardy day take like to do that is to be one for the Packers said they only take like 70 days a year for Jeopardy to get all the Jeopardy is done in like this enticing, 64, 74 days in and out of the NFL seasons with 200 day, whatever. So he said he could do that could take it happen. He could do, but I don't think you seriously being considered. But he said that's a pretty big draw.

They definitely give using Wisconsin but contract. Also Aaron Rodgers has a contract to play to be one for the Green Bay Packers. Does he he is he is contractually obligated to play, but it has come out through his camp, public relations, that maybe he's not interested in playing for the Green Bay Packers this year.

Maybe wanting a trade sounds like Denver's the place, but it didn't happen.

He can he do this if he's under contract. He is contracted to play and show up. What's was the angle here. So what I have learned about contracts. During my tenure as an attorney in the beauty of them is that you can renegotiate them at any point in time, you probably shouldn't, sometimes, and I tell my kids this all the time, but there's a huge difference between can and should, but still you know it. It appears that he is unhappy, some would say disgruntled and I think he's looking to either one. Renegotiate with different terms huge different terms or just be out of Green Bay which I know that is too much to the chagrin of a lot of folks here even in the triangle contract. He had an ironclad is NFL contracts or ironclad contract, millions of attorneys much more experience than me and you look at these things over the years as he gets ironclad contract he supposed to be there to his main weapon for renegotiating he supposed to be there supposed to pay them. So what happens he holds out. He doesn't know what I mean. Of course, is that he doesn't want a performance does not perform. And of course they couldn't attempt to force him to perform the problem with that is, he's the tablet.

So at that point does he show up and just blow it lower unit which I don't think you would Deming's and Rogers critic Stephen a Smith he's a bad man, but he can show up north or not that point they have to force his hand so to speak, but I think at that point the organization probably would say you know this is not working out for us were going to just load him, so to speak, get what we can, as far as value and do the best we can buy the team because at that point we are front office guy. That's what you working towards two things Super Bowl and was in the best interest of the team. Everything else doesn't matter to me if he doesn't play.

They don't have to pay him. Maybe they can even find them. So not only not pay this contract right that that's what happens you get a standoff right there still taking Hits still count against him will have a quarterback and so I guess that's just leverage rights of the contractual relationship really is just outside the leverage right and that's I mean the reality of that is that, bring it back home to our listeners. That is, everyday life with contracts, whatever. If you're selling widgets.

If you have a contract to sell widgets to Acme company and you don't deliver somebody gonna sue you for breach home. I understand this because the folks at home may not have have gone to three years of law school don't go and also leave the fact that what happens you know when this happens and that was that a fact will add this to it so it can contracts more time countries were always talking about Acme is the company that makes whatever it is that were worried about and they don't have a real product that which right is made up you have nightmares about widgets. If you decide to go to law school. If you remember Jim Ross, Jetsons girl and I do want to do is made. It was it was, was spatially made because their competitor named no one will widgets in the thousands. I was going to tease there anyway so it is just interesting to watch this class attorneys as we have we have clients in our day-to-day practice to have a contract for whatever reason they don't want to perform. Right now you have a lot of builders because of lumber prices because of the way everything is going there, under contract make sell house and it no longer makes financial sense to sell at the price they were originally selling it for so personal determinations and their economic will lose more complying with this contract and I will if I breach it gets in there is you know there are real love economic factors that people have to try to wade through, so to speak, to determine if it makes sense for them to perform.

Even so, on the other side of that you have a builder that has contracted to sell this house at whatever price you also have a buyer on the other side of the house to make the determination of the bill to terminate this contract. Is it worth it to me financially to sue this builder which we don't know know what that person's financial situation is and what it means to them, but probably more times than not, they're not going to spend the money is they have to pay a filing fee find an attorney that's willing to do it first and foremost and then pay the filing fees pay for depositions.

Whatever the case may be, just might not make financial sense for that person to do that, they may just decide I'll buy another house from somewhere else. This is really just contracts must be ironclad, but really a lot of things in a relationship are outside of the contract. You know it's it's it's interesting. Just take a look at it but it's all playing out for Aaron Rodgers. I'll be real interested in a more intelligent one was a big day. Just Day was when it would change the money for our minds dear dear talking millions and millions of dollars not know whatever even the big number that we make the right is 100 grand in your talking, you know, they spent on a grand lunch so it's going to be interesting but multistory people is hire a lawyer to look over your contracts. Talk to them before you enter them so that maybe you can save yourself some angst and heartburn will watch assassin plays out stating talking contracts on outlaw law here. You've got Josh Whitaker and you can find them at Whitaker and Hamer. If you got any questions about what were talking about today.

If you got a legal question you want to ask the question of the show.

Here's the number 800-659-1186. That's 800-659-1186 if you have a legal question of your very own. You can also contact Whitaker and Hamer. Here's the number 800-659-1186. That's 800-659-1186 comfortable yellow lawyer. What happens when a student is questioned by teacher but with a law enforcement officer present, not they do their listing to the outlaw lawyer we got Josh Whitaker and studio. He is your host. I Morgan Patrick consumer advocate. Our guest today is Damien McCullers and you heard it working to talk more legal right now there's an interesting case before the North Carolina Supreme Court here in the past week or so about the case.

It was in In re DA just for our listeners out there from the show. That is because this case involved a minor so you don't have which would normally have word says state of Carolina versus Damien McCullers or Joshua Whitaker or whatever the case may be, so that is why really interesting legal issue which relates to come out. What we would determine would be in custody, so to speak, and with adults. A lot of times you you here is talk about in the law whether or not there was a custodial taking or whether the person was in custody and that type of thing factually here. One student is caught with marijuana on campus at a middle school student that entails Prince the principal leave at the school where he got that marijuana. He names another student and that student is then brought into the principal's office by the school resource officer and the school resource officer is present during the time that the principal talks with and questions. This young person is right so I got 13-year-old he's been called to the principal's office, but was escorted there by law enforcement officer was on school grounds there in the present office doors close law enforcement officer is not doing the questioning. What is present principles asking questions 13-year-old confesses yes I that was my marijuana. I sold my soul. I sold marijuana to student Alexa contraband may be sent to me like a curmudgeon. I like the contraband, not a 13-year-old probably say but that's where this case is how it happened.

So got a confession. Charges eventually filed and without lawyer in here for the defense down his lawyers as a way to minute right this person and this goes back to something that everybody's heard or seen on television. At some point, which is your Miranda rights, which is what we call that after a Supreme Court case where the defendant Miranda right was was confessed after being withheld and not knowing they could call someone not knowing that he had the right to an attorney had the right to be silent. These things work, read to you before that they were enumerated so so that's what Miranda change. So now we all know what Miranda rights are because of that spring court case that changed everything.

So now, how do Marie. How does this affect a 13-year-old in the principal's office.

Usually the Miranda rights are what triggers them as a law enforcement official.

Being involved in a new year not being easily been a situation where you don't feel reasonably don't feel like you can only in it and that's kind of the linchpins of the speed of kinda how you get there and how it starts again with these facts. That was the issue is was this 13-year-old in custody, so to speak. Was he free to leave or did he feel free to leave and that's kinda how we get there, so to speak. It's common concerning the validity €13 on marijuana to school, but that's a completely different question that I have a 12-year-old and I can't.

I can't imagine someone questioning my 12-year-old. Maybe it's because were it turns out, nobody given a minute I think just even a step back further from that is concerning that it's even happening, I'm concerned that your little one you will and that of the 13-year-old has access to marijuana sell to someone else that's tough but I would be I would be super angry at my 12-year-old if I got the call that he was the principal's office is selling contraband, but I don't yes that's coming. And then we get to step two which is theirs questioning happening. Whatever the questioning may be, and the facts of this again. The school resource officer didn't say a word, just nothing in the school resource officer hasn't maybe done anything wrong is as we look back after the fact and we cannot piece together what happened you know you can't point to school resource officer and say he's done intended to do anything wrong. He's done anything wrong is doing what he believes is job to be here. She believes John Reiber that goes back to, one of the things we talked about in another segment, which is your belief at the time doesn't necessarily doesn't necessarily job what the actual law is aware of what the justices or or judges may determine the law to be so of course you do your best. At the time to do what you can with what you have, factually, but the law only say something else, and that may be what makes a decision turn one way or another. This is interesting to me in his recent case in the North Carolina Supreme Court has a lot of new under Chief Justice has an injustice that was appointed one of the newer justices wrote this opinion is very important as judicial elections aren't always the highest on people's list but your judges are here. Justices are very important because this this law is going to change a lot of different things on a lot of levels, but the Supreme Court North Carolina came back and said this 13-year-old had a reasonable belief that he was not free to get just one point of clarification. I believe if I'm not mistaken, this is Court of Appeal so the clinical of appeals and so this might have another step to go.

It may have the step to go to paying all if the size decided they wanted take it a step further and take it to the Supreme Court, and that would be the Supreme Court of North Carolina strike the North Carolina Court of Appeals here found that in this 13-year-old was a reasonable belief. He was not free to leave and that he was being detained yet.

He had the ability or the right to have been told you know of again same things we have the time you have read my soundtrack anything you say can be used against you.

You have right to an attorney can afford an attorney, like appointing those types of things in again. You know, just in the mind of a 13-year-old. I'm certain that €13 sitting in the principal's office with a uniform law enforcement officer probably did not feel like I just get up and walk out. I got I can do what I want, like I can get up and walk out of the cafeteria and go play ball in the gym so and that's with the Court of Appeals, in their opinion not read it a little while back indicated discounted that was not the feeling they are that BGG didn't feel extremely right and if you're here being if he had gotten his Miranda rights. He would realize that he was being interrogated and this is a as a legal matter and could call his parents are as parents, their attorney there sees these decisions don't get a lot of press trying to find this in the local news, but this is an important decision that really affects could affect any kid North Carolina absolutely your listing to outlaw lawyer you got Josh Whitaker.

He's in the hot seat and I say hot seat he's hosting the show. We also have Damien my colors with us as our guest today talk in all things legal. If you have questions for the show. We can use these questions for upcoming shows. You can leave them at 800-659-1186.

That's 800-659-1186. You can also go to outlaw lawyer.com that's outlaw lawyer.com. You can leave the question there as well. If you got a legal question of your own and you want to get in touch with Whitaker and Hamer. You can call that same number 800-659-1186. That's 800-659-1186 coming up on the outlaw lawyer, the red-hot real estate market in wake County new forms, new ideas, new money coming up on the outlaw lawyer. Stay tuned. All right, outlaw lawyer I am your host Josh Whitaker with our newest addition to the program. Our cohost, my law partner Jerry glad to be here glad to be a fellow outlaw lawyer your law partner here.

Life friend Joe is is my law partner were both lawyers for the law firm of Whitaker and Hamer. We have offices in Raleigh, Garner Clayton, Goldsboro and Fuquay Marina. But Joe is going to join me on outlaw lawyer to help us talk about how law affects everything in society but any to introduce Jeff so Joe born and raised in Clayton born and raised. I have known you since you were approximately 87 or 87 or eight somewhere in that range. So I coached Joe and good old Clayton Park and right basketball in the mid to late 90s and on into the 2000 little bit to get too old for the park and rec and All-Star all the other your ages is cloud your memory. It was actually it was Garner Garner, parking parts and initially you are like a 12-year-old boy coach. The youngest coach in the history of Wrigley basketball and then transition to moved up to the Clayton rec league and and and we reunited and continued to establish a rec league basketball dynasty that no 10 to 11 basketball league has ever said he likes that have never been seen it so so Joe I need you and your kid.

I didn't really have a lot of contact with ECU left you went to college yes yes went to going to college. Went to Barton College in Wilson from Clayton high school state semi-local and then got out of college decided to go to law school will immediately and I want to say we we reconnected a little bit in that period of time as I knew you are an attorney and I feel like we got together Hannah had no no idea. I don't think we ever planned that had to do anything to work together just cannot, happened somehow you and you and Kim for law school. I can remember even done law scholarly Raleigh.

Also, I got the best of both worlds. I spent the one year and Goose Creek and actually commuted from lucky enough to live close so I couldn't get the full Campbell experience, but I did have one year in campus at the old Campbell campus and then it moved to the new very amazing very up-to-date very modern Raleigh campus.

If you're if you're ever talking to a Campbell attorney is very important whether they were a Goose Creek attorney Campbell law student or if they were Raleigh lost and I'm a hybrid of the best of both worlds and is pining for anyone else but me, supported me as we were, lawyer, law school part of the building was condemned some word on a Goose Creek.

I remember when we had to help move desk is one part of the building that condemns it was from 1908.

The building was still quite quite old and my one year there, but Joe and his in his duties with the law firm of Whitaker and Hamer spends a lot of time in the real estate transaction. That's correct, virtually 100% of my time in the real estate and never never planned it that way really didn't have a strong sense of what I wanted to come in at a loss was far as what I wanted to practice always, thought I want to litigate. Did some litigation discovered don't really want to litigate that much. I would much prefer that that real estate transaction world, not for some people somehow very much for me that Whitaker and Hamer. We are a full-service law firm offices and in five cities here in North Carolina. We do handle litigation. We do a lot of real estate transaction.

I was a lecture we closed thousands upon thousands upon thousands upon thousands of real estate transactions and when attorney says a real estate transaction attorneys talking about purchase property you have a closing attorney.

Refinance your house have a closing attorney get equity line you have a closing attorney. We help builders as they develop and and and sell lots and and build and so real estate transactional attorney actually does a whole lot of stuff is a lot of contracts deals with a lot of bank stills of Lotta lenders town zoning. There's a lot of different components that suggest made it sound very unexciting, as if litigation was the only exciting type. While there was but real estate transactional also very excited.

Very exciting. Wake up every day excited for life, a ready to go feet hit the floor ready to transact real estate Tom and it is. It is exciting. I mean it's it's it's well it's a lot of people's livelihood. Lotta people. Lotta people get fired up, especially developers, builders they get fired up over the real estate transactions and and so it's something that you know you're always on your toes. Different types of problems emerging. Every day you Lotta people and then one of the good things about it is generally not always. Generally, everyone's happy.

In the process. It's not it's not contentious, it can be contagious and it's not, by its nature, contentious litigious me versus you type a process again that happens frequently along behind. By its nature, everyone.

A seller to be happy to get paid to sell her home and get their money in a buyer seem to be happy to have a nice new home so everyone should be happy that their goals adequately represent you, and send everyone home transactional attorneys are very good at analyzing assessment we want to do here on the show is my take.

Joe's experience Damien's experience. My experience and we want to take legal legal issues that get into the news that have a legal basis to get reported on by non-attorneys. I want to take that news in and look at it like a litigation attorney would look at it like a transactional attorney would look at. I want to analyze the facts. Apply the case law or the applicable statute and can you figure out what's going on when these legal items get reported on by any news outlet. A lot of times they get politicized politics plays an opinion plays in and that's all well and good. That's not what were doing here that's correct on the outlaw lawyer.

We are separating that opinion were separating and we may give personal anecdotes and and then things like that but but by and large, were were taken the opinion out of it. Were looking at the facts were looking at the black letter law and were just trying to help you guys get a better understanding of what the law is and and kind of again how that intersects with our day-to-day lives. We love to hear what you thought about today show. If you have any questions. If you have any comments. If you want to reach Joe are me you can get us one 806 five 911 $0.86 1-800-659-1186. You can leave your comments or questions for me and Joe there.

We will get them I will be happy to help you any way we can all take a look at some of those comments on upcoming shows and and like so please give me a good dialogue. We love to hear from you. We certainly would love to hear from you. Thanks for having me Josh.

I'm happy to be the second part of the two-headed monster that is the outlaw lawyer and it's it's an honor thought the same ramp you can dial 800-659-1186 for future program they could answer your question right here on the air. If you got legal questions for Whitaker and Hamer you can call 800-659-1186.

That's 800-659-1186 guys take away Damien the real estate market in 2021. My goodness is crazy if you live in North Carolina, Uruguay and Chatham any of the surrounding counties. Statewide, the real estate market is in St. it is absolutely incredible. We are seeing things that we have never seen before. We are seeing things that we just thought we would never see again. I think we all thought, during the pandemic that things might slow down a bit and it really did not a really ramped up and did not slow down and and what the market seeing now. Pegasus is a national issue were looking at on the North Carolina level, but we have supply and demand absolute power supply is the lowest most people have ever seen, and the demand is about as high as it can get absolutely and that trickle down and creates new scenarios that we just have not seen or just are not used to what you think so for me Damien Elkins back to contracts always want to figure out how the law, how how the market is outside factors affect the law and so here we have North Carolina, standard contract, said an offer to purchase there's a way that real estate transactions happen, especially when you have real estate agents, attorneys involved, or by news these documents so we are running into somebody would list their house for sale, and within 12 hours off 60 springiness unusual is not unusual.

Now is the norm now, but prior to guess what 2019 maybe is not the norm, and when was it listed. You may get a couple of offers you do some showings and then maybe in a week.

My future listing price, you might write something underneath the now like I don't think anyone would offer on any home you're not getting any offers under listing and were not going way over Lou's way over his what you guys can I jump and can I ask is their secret formula to why this has happened to me and I know interest rates are low. I know the building material stuff to come by some existing homes come premium but I'm here in 30 to 40 offers per house and if you don't have cash and it's going over ask you can't get along so you can have cash is having a record time.

That's where they we were just talking about is you know formally. It used to be that we note listed on the market and if you got an offer in a week you were like static and you know your rules, I done an awesome super job for you and now it's like you have. I'm hearing people say enough her realtor say that they are seeing buyers show up before their scheduled appointment time, and they're having to tell them know you gotta wait for your appointment, but there literally right of offers like the house and just, coming their debt having to do so is really is really interesting how about the legal aspect is having to find this glut of offers us over asking someone of the things that were singing the real estate market is people come and say are used to this house for $500,000. I want to make sure I get it I can offer you 550 and go on in. I'm getting a mortgage, you know, the one in, I know that this house unit when I get the mortgage and enterprise we learn a new appraisal, and I will lend you money unless they can justify it with comps and things like that and so you're telling seller look on page 550, even if my even if this house doesn't appraise for 550 I'm in a pay the difference. Warehouse comes in and praises for 525.

That means you is the buyer have to be prepared $25,000 cash and do it essentially immediately and so these are these are what we call him appraisal addendum's that we as attorneys, we create all these appraisal addendum's like okay well that appraises for $10,000 less LP a 10,000 up to $10,000 difference. And so there's this whole new negotiating strategy when you're going so far ever listing you don't know if the market works change every day during the market can justify it.

I mean it's just amazing the things that we are saying that's one of them.

I think another one is just the simple people are just like you said, there's pain way over ask.

I mean just whatever it takes all the other thing or trend that I have seen that. I think I know I personally just could not do is people are buying, silencing here literally did you know I guess you have to trust her realtor at some point, but they literally aren't saying hey I'm moving from Chicago. I've put in to an offer. They've all been declined. This was in my price range.

This is one that is what I'm looking for size wise and the realtors like Glenna Facebook live walk-through in their like to put an offer in on CNC sourcing the appraisal addendum's.

I commented to the real estate practice processing outs: escalation clause here North Carolina escalation clause is something where that same example.

Why would I want this house listed for 500. I think I got up at 550 and there to be sure I get it is an offer but I'll put in that offer, but also put in escalation causing if you offer from 1/3 party.

575 576 we had to give me evidence and what is the evidence of what's bona fide third-party offer but you see in these just these in here before six months ago in escalation causing accounts crazy is not New York is not California. You know, like book percentages change every day in the important thing I would say, especially if your real estate agent or real estate attorney. Listen to this is actually been living very, we never had a lawsuit or an appraisal addendum or ever in escalation clause in the Henderson is there is no settled caseload to be able to say you can't do this or you can do that right and so I think of a lawsuit if if one of these addendum's ever create a lawsuit in this market. Someone really wants to take the other party to task. There were many Arena Supreme Court North Carolina Supreme Court opinion here couple years from now on how all this played out. It says is definitely crazy Mark. I mean just the market itself is just go bananas means it's a really good thing for the area. I guess I think last we checked was what maybe like 60 or 70 people today.

I asked her it was just a crazy number while the other the other big story guys is the large companies that are picking North Carolina Apple being one of them a minister anyone so you a lot of that discussion you have, you know you favor waterhole or may be in your neighborhood cul-de-sac is when is this going to slow down and folks, the amount of people that are moving in from California, New York, the Midwest and that they're getting here North Carolina to fill out some of these jobs may make.

I think the Apple stat was there have 2000 jobs in the average showers and that if I have calories because Apple announcement was 187 five Whatley. I have family that live live in places where they're not growing and so we talk about this and then cut a joke about this problem that was an absolute group, have a minute and I still do this all the time. You know, and we talked about this in another segment, but were born and raised here, so we know we we see a lot and we we seen the growth and we see the growth now. I tell people all the time I age myself. A lot of times when somebody asked me for directions because our sale yeah you go past the legal statue that was done here. My looking like what you talk about him telling them about a statue that was there and I was like six years old yet. It's a good problem to have one of the other things that we talked about was you know after law school and before we started thing about open the firm and know you're just you, that young person freshly graduated and you you have options of where to move and where to go.

I would literally read the top 10 places to live in the US and every single time it may not be number one and put it in the top 5 to 6. It was somewhere in the Triangle area, whether it be Carrie Weatherby, Nino Apex, Raleigh, but everything the time was somewhere in the triangle back in the day, mid 90s and scary and mean mid 90s.

Carrie was number one. All the town zoning again great problem I have is this is kind of what it is and I think being a rare native we get to see kind of the blossom of it all over are shown to be very interesting see how this continues because it can continue this continues to shape our contracts the way attorneys approach real estate transactions and interesting me was going to be interesting. I think we can turn it off when we get that great legal training at Campbell so we can't turn it off. Everybody's enjoyed the first episode of the outlaw lawyer. I really do appreciate my lifelong friend while a partner Damien McCullers for being here today with the Mr. for the world but it is interesting to you. You have any questions or concerns. How can the contact so now it's 800-659-1186.

That's 800-659-1186 it got a question that we can tackle on an upcoming show we'd love to hear from you. You can also go to outlaw lawyer.com and leave it there if you got a legal question for Josh Whitaker, and Whitaker and Hamer you can call that number is 1-800-659-1186 nine attorney licensed to practice law in North Carolina yes appearing on the show maybe licensed North Carolina attorneys discussion of the chosen to be general in nature and in no way should the discussion be interpreted as legal advice. We would like to be rendered. Once an attorney licensed in the state in which you live at the opportunity to discuss the backs of your case with you. The attorneys appearing on the show are speaking in generalities about the law, North Carolina, and how these laws affect average Carolinian. If you have any questions about the content of the show, contact us directly