The Right To Privacy, COVID Eviction Moratorium

Lawyer you know you have a constitutional right to privacy what you do. Joe and I will tell you where it comes from and what checks this week. Now think about him and you know and now outlaw lawyer Josh Whitaker you are dialed into outlaw lawyer.

As always, I am one of your to host my name is Josh Whitaker on my right here in the studio is Joseph T. Hamer, Joseph, how are things hello Josh, I'm doing great. It's great to be here.

As always, and I'm happy to talk with you. I feel like every the first minute and 15 seconds of every episode of the outlaw lawyer is almost verbatim, the same I'm arriving on back and confirm that, but that's my that's my guess. The people love consistency gives a that sense of normalcy. That's what the people are looking for lab not listen to a second of any episode I have always and apologizing when asked here. Yes it I do get déjà vu every time you you do that I might try to get more creative. Next time, if it ain't broke don't fix it.

The if it's your first time listening to the outlaw lawyer Joe and I are practicing North Carolina attorneys and what we try to do each week for about an hour so it's kind of sit down and take things out of the news pick things that we think are interesting to to nonattorney so we try to take legal cases, statutes, happenings, you know out of the news and can look at it from an attorney's perspective, just like they were coming across our desk at the law firm things important for you to know that Joe and I are the owners and managing partners of Whitaker and Hamer at the law firm with offices in Raleigh, Clayton Garner, Goldsboro and Fuquay Verein. I try to mention is offices in different orders every week. Now that I'm doing you doing a good job.

I think you I think you successfully is only so many combinations, but I think you hit them in the mall and before we get started, always want to let people know we really, I would say this every week and some people are taking us up on it. But if the firm can be of any service to you. If you have any questions or anything you want us to talk about on the outlaw lawyer. You can call us so we have a phone number set up 1-800-659-1186 that numbers set up take a message if you call it please lease and contact information so we can reach back out to you target the right appropriate attorney over the firm to reach out to you and you can also text that number now so you have a message you want to text at 1-800-659-1186, as always, you can shoot us an email at questions again as plural questions@theoutlawlawyer.com website is the outlier.com where our vintage shows exist in all of our old shows are archived there and we do little social media as the outlaw your and social media. We did have someone reach out to us about one of our show a week or two ago we talked about rain somewhere and so whatever listers named Jimbo have never met a bad guy named Jimbo every single human being named Jimbo that that I've ever met, as well as been a fantastic evening, I got another theory I've never met a guy I met David's that maybe I don't like that much, but if they go by Dave.

I've never met a Dave that was a bad guy. I can't think of the dead. David.

That has ever been that guy and James Cuvier kids Joseph your probably a bit too young, but I never watched kids in the hall is familiar with. Yes, that is a somewhat what is a Canadian comedy troupe you asked Dave Foley yeah I today fully and he has a song called these are the days I know of everything that I have not was worth the Google okay but it goes back to my theory that is not idling is a bad day is no evil days out there and I don't think try to dig deep, a bad Dave even historically like in history even even better than that is that there is no bad Jimbo something we can conclusively say there's never been a bad Jimbo oh Jimbo unit is one of the boys on the Simpsons. Jimbo is a probably had reasons for bullying people that justified Jimbo pointed out to us right and rightfully so. I think we maybe came off on a ransom or episode. We can talk about technology a little bit in love.

Maybe low-tech attacks versus high-tech attacks and as we pointed out some of these rain somewhere. Attacks are in fact very very very sophisticated, yet I think that's a fair point, you know, we talked about the rent somewhere with kind of a broad generalization and of course there's there's there are ransom where attacks are probably far more sophisticated than either Joshua or myself could ever even comprehend and you know that's a very fair point.

I'm glad Jimbo brought that up because it is it is a very complex thing in the mechanism of action in the way that they they lock the systems out.

There's nothing there's nothing simple about that. I think I think what we were trying to emphasize we made in a poor job of that, but I think we were trying to emphasize is the way that access is gained a lot of times is a very low-tech method which again is just targeting individual users with just simple fishing schemes or just simple scam emails and I think that that that does happen a lot, but of course the rent somewhere there. It's very complicate is very calculated, and that's a great point and I appreciate Jimbo reaching out to us with that and just continue to update some things that we've talked about in prior weeks are our young man in North Raleigh who had the spitting zebra cobra he got charge coming misdemeanors get hurt like 40 misdemeanors, several misdemeanors, so I saw I saw the follow-up stories this week where he pled guilty. I think to one misdemeanor night and see what it was but I think he had did did forfeit all of his thanks so are our friend in North Raleigh no longer has any dangerous venomous reptiles and so now we don't we don't have to worry is his time in the public has come to an end, so hopefully can rebound from that dualistic to channel. Now we need to check that out to be the research week. I would imagine that's a complete loss. I don't know what you turn to think he just our student snake and present impersonation, sock puppets, staring at the camera and I got I got here. This is our I believe this is our 13th show, so this is our 13th show anniversary spectacular lucky number 13. I you guys are so lucky here for the 13th show.

We put out we put way more thought than normal and it is 13th show because it's so special to us. 13 of the greatest hours of my life spent with you, Josh Whitaker, talking to the people and speaking of the people we we really want to focus us on things that people would be interested in hearing somewhere attorneys we get kicked out by the law by statutes and so I don't think we'll ever have any problems, it was something to talk about no weathered interest non-attorneys who may be listening that I don't know about that. So if there's a listener out there and you got a legal topic or a legal news item that you would like to hear me and Joe bounce off each other talk about.

We drill. If you tell us about it. We'll talk about it. For better or worse yet permit for better or for worse. We are not experts in several several different fields but will talk about those things as if we were with all the confidence in the world here so you can text us now who can't text it's very easy.

It's very simple. We encourage every single one of you right now to pull out your phone 1-800-659-1186.

She was a text and and we would love to hear from you and I think what you know you touched on Josh. We try to do a little bit different, which I would hope would be semi-refreshing is is really taken that neutral a political perspective where you're not getting you not getting any kind of slander bias were come at it strictly neutral. I literally don't even have opinions anymore.can't form just purely neutral.

Well, today we want to spend some time this came up I can't remember exactly what we are talking only with timeout marijuana marijuana weed episode. The Alaskan Supreme Court back in the 70s had made simple possession decriminalized it because they said it was part of our constitutional right to privacy to have small amounts of marijuana yeah and I got reversed that intrigue me in this constitutional right of privacy.

This is what's been used for for a while now for the past hundred years to kind of reinterpret the Bill of Rights and and what the Bill of Rights were originally trying to do and you see us come up a lot now. You sure do.

And you jot your very private person, Josh, that is better. Who better to guide us through the constitutional right to privacy than Josh Whitaker himself downplays up so renting either some of the some of the Bill of Rights. Some of the more the rights that are more attuned to creating privacy to protecting your privacy, look at what what the court took from that and how they've created the zone of privacy. This right to privacy that is pretty important, protects us all from a lot of stuff. It's extremely important and I couldn't agree with you more power also to talk about COBIT West we seemed to touch on that topic very frequently, but specifically were to talk about the eviction moratorium there it was, you know it's been some recent development for the CDCs actually come out and issued an extension of that and were to talk about the nuances.

If you need to employ or utilize that. What are the steps that you can take what are the effect what's the effect of how it plays out things like that.

We can talk about that some more details well all right will Joe I think this is a good time to take a break, so will take a stop for some for some commercials and will be right back up next on the outlaw. Your Josh and I talked about the coven eviction moratorium and the recent developments with 19 sound effects that I've never I've never used and we notice that and so now Joseph's over there sober and have some pressing the buttons. I'm not afraid to press the buttons. I don't know what several of them do, but I know how to use an iPad and that's what this is and their several pictures of the sounds you to make some is to try to insert some color into this whenever it is appropriate to cover 19 Josh interesting sale going out pretty good. So we got. We want to talk to where were attorneys we we are practicing attorneys in one of the questions we get a lot we represent a lot of landlords we do these used to do quite a bit of addiction work for better or worse at something that happens. And so we kind of came pretty close attention to this eviction moratorium and you the Supreme Court's Kari spoke to this before Joe they have.

That's not the one I was looking I like that it will bring you back out yet so the CDC they issued a new eviction moratorium on August 3 two I'm not sure exactly when this episode will be airing but on August 3. That is when it was issued and it basically was intended to temporarily halt evictions in certain counties work over 19 is spreading rapidly and is interesting because the first eviction moratorium Supreme Court, had a chance to look at it in a case and we will go to the facts is not important, but it was another one were just as Cavanaugh, said Ada CDC doesn't have the right to do this and and I think at the time the original moratorium was about to expire. Since report and take any action but he basically said a if this happens again, just know CDC. This is not in their purview of things that they can do. Yeah.

And so what we wanted to do today is you talk a little bit about the moratorium itself and and more so talk about procedurally what what you need to do if you're potentially in an area where you know one of these counties where COBIT is spreading rapidly. If you're still being affected by so many people have been affected in so many ways. So if you or someone who is is had some issues. I know a lot of folks have had issues paying rent and and keeping gainful employment and folks need help sometimes order to talk a little bit about procedurally what you can do to take advantage of this new eviction moratorium. Joe, one of the things that the original moratorium is of the virginal diet is an important station.

The original moratorium was just you really couldn't evict for nonpayment of rent. Right you could evict further things a holdover tenant damaging the property violating other provisions of your lease, but nonpayment of rent. No evictions. That's how that's how it worked on the old moratorium sure so anything is an important distinction because I think some some people probably erroneously assume that you just couldn't evict anyone for anything but but yeah that's it. That's a very important distinction and so I think the most important thing with this eviction moratorium is the need to present your landlord in the event that you need to take advantage of it with a CDC declaration.

So if you've received a demand for rent.

If you received an eviction notice or an eviction lawsuit.

This this can help you see you know you have new you have protections that will protect you. Starting August 3 exactly starting starting August 3 and so you know that this this declaration is the first step as far as what you need to present to your landlord to take advantage of this moratorium, but is also an important to note that the CDC also give some additional guidance of their and you can go onto there is the several places where this information is available.

I think the CFPB is actually where we pulled this from but in addition to the statutory protection of the declaration.

The protection of that declaration, they given you some other just I guess practical tips of what you need to do to get back on your feet as well. So is not just taken advantage of the moratorium and and getting relief from those payments because there's other things that you need to do as well to get back on your feet.

In general, so one of the big things here, so we were. I represent, landlord. I represent a lot of landlords.

I think the big thing is I don't think landlords are lining up to evict people that haven't paid you had a landlords they don't want to lose that money that back rent still owed adding a simple port and like if someone invented doesn't understand moratorium is SNF is not forgiveness rights.

If you had rent you still a rent and in landlords.

I think for the most part that I talked to her and I want to work with tenants to gets some some if not all that money back.

Yeah.

And one thing that that the CDC notes is that several several renters will give up before they have a chance to go to court. I think some people just assume that there's nothing they can do.

There's no nothing to protect them and that once that eviction proceedings started that that's really up that's not the case uses a hot topic for legal aid, legal aid ends up helping a lot of tenants who may be in the situation as it is to be a real big issue you coming up and I think you think reach out to your landlord. Especially if you have a good relationship with the landlord paying anything.

You can pay now you even know you don't you if there's moratorium you'll have to do anything you can do to show good faith.

If you want to stay where you're at to work with the landlord ahead of time because you know a lot of rent and and they want that rents a lot a lot of rent. I mean, potentially one dollar that was pertinent I was. I was had you on that one. I'm looking I'm looking for opportunities like these in man but yeah there's also some federal and local programs that are available in the event that you need assistance covering rent and utilities or other housing costs, and all this information is available out there if you go when you check out the resources available to you online.

Just again, don't assume that there's nothing that can be done because there are things that can be done. Moratorium what you know you can argue back and forth. Whether was needed or not you know people were deftly struggling you know the PPP loans were out there for small businesses. So I think it was definitely right for the government do something. I think there may be an argument that this is going on almost too long and you know we always talk about how this is anything in the law anything in a statute anything and like a moratorium. It's a balancing act right so you deftly have tenants who need immediate help. What you these landlords that that's how they're making their living so you know that landlords are all top hat wearing small mustache having bad guys are people with mortgages. Those mortgages still have to get paid. You got a lot of landlords out there that are like you said not just completely affluent living the dream on their yacht types. There's a lot of individuals. It could be the only rental they have and they could be. They could really need that money as well.

You know that's a very fair point.

Lebanese landlords need to pay for their yachts landlords lords ghetto for their yachts know that there's a lot there's a lot of landlords that I know that are endangered like that the you know your tenant you're staying in a house in that house is getting on the foreclosure because landlord is in collecting rent to pay the mortgage so that doesn't help anybody as a double whammy of bad things happen in people having one thing we haven't mentioned yet, but I think it's also very important. If you if you get hit with this eviction notice, or if you're in the midst of an eviction proceeding. It's important to seek legal assistance as well reach out to an attorney and and get that help their there's like you said, there's legal aid available for a lot of people where you could even potentially have pro bono work done for you on your behalf or get some kind of assistance. And that's something that you should absolutely consider if you're in that situation yeah you know attorneys, you know, unfortunately, will cost money. Most attorneys don't work for free.

Although a lot of attorneys do do pro bono work, but if you're a nephew tenant and you're trying to catch up on rent, legal aid, make may be a good resource for you. Absolutely. And so we talked a little bit about the programs that are available to you as far as they've got programs available to help you cover rent to help you cover utilities to help you cover other housing costs. But there's also programs that are designed really their local rent assistance programs that will be designed to help people seek new housing as well. So it's not limited to just monetary assistance to catch up but they there may be programs out there that will help you cover the cost of moving cover your security deposit cover application fees so there's things out there for everybody just talk more about the legal aspect. Now it actually is is available, but I think Biden himself. If you cannot read on what was going also the original moratorium expired for a couple days and this new one came down the pipe but I think Biden himself knows that that is new one. You have anyone challenge is that I'm assuming that will take some time. Nothing is the point I'm assuming if he gets challenges going to get not down but it will provide a lot of relief before he gets that far along in the process. Yet even if it does ultimately get not down. I think like you said it's going to is can provide some relief because sometimes all folks need is just a little bit of time and no one no one wants to see anyone put out on the street that was having a difficult time, and it really has been an unprecedented time for people and there's been folks going through a lot dealing with a lot so that's a good point, but once I think he said it will want these yacht owning rich landlords come together and start start pushing against this. It's good to be interesting to see if it does survive that scrutiny.

Well, that's our covert segment for today.

If you have any questions or concerns. Give us a call. You can reach me in jail here that while your are you can reach me in jail at the firm of Whitaker and Hamer by dialing 1-800-659-1186 is 1-800-659-1186 and again you call and leave us a detailed message or you can text us on that line so us and us a message. There are website as it has been since day one is the outlaw your.com and that's where all of our archived old past episodes live. You can email us questions@theoutlawyour.com and then we do exist on social media, Facebook and Twitter as the outlaw Joseph unbeliever on Instagram or anything that's correct Josh, we're not on Instagram.

Can the government prohibit you from buying birth control they tried once with your constitutional right to privacy stop will will will. I'm retiring the dwarves. That was my last soundboard back to legal talk with Joe before we get into with anything we had talked about a constitutional right to privacy developed and so it started with just the court hearing factual arguments and trying to make the Bill of Rights apply when they thought it should things that came before the Bill of Rights kind of a magical document in our founders went ahead and spelled out the best of their ability. At the time everything our government should be able to do to us.

It's innocent, loving citizens. We are innocent and weak and we are loving and we are citizens so but our founders, of course couldn't imagine a lot of things that were dealing with today you die, and one of the attorneys there's a couple different camps but I like a strict interpretation of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

But even when you do that there still you still have to make some some leaps of faith some John try to figure what the founders probably intended and then try to apply that to issues of today. That's right, Josh, and you asked the question. Can the government prohibit you from buying birth control by God. People need their birth control to any and all kinds of it is a person with so many children.

People need their birth control. So you have a lot of kids several hundred V for so what I want to do in this segment as I want to pick our anger through the whole Bill of Rights weave. I talked about a lot of these on the show and in different in different lights, but I want to go through the ones that the court have a County used Imus a tent poles and use them as tent poles to create this tent zone of privacy as of the first one we are a look at it on a show on one of our shows. But we wouldn't talk about the First Amendment.

I like that man in the tent poles on closing my eyes right now I'm picturing attentive rights and it's a big tent with room for everyone in America right hip underneath it. So yeah First Amendment so I guess we let's start with the text so I will now literally read the text and then we shall shall dive into it so first commitment says Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for redress of grievances is only talk about the First Amendment. We need break that down and kinda figure out what what rights are in there.

So we talked about this before the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, they're not lengthy is not a lengthy document. This is a succinct document and we can have to go through and look at every clause to figure out what what are founders were protecting their answer.

The first clause that clearly there. Dave is the establishment clause. Remember that Joseph I Rimmer the establishment clause from my several years in law school in my studies and also remember it from one of our classic, the outlaw your episodes. One of my favorites's house where we discussed the establishment. So that's the one where where Congress shall make no law establishing a state religion right so this is one where we we are founders never wanted religion to sue to be then everyone to religion the government endorsed everyone a national religion. That's a very fair point and yet we I encourage everybody to go back into the archives and and check that one out a real Bangor of an episode, we put out on the establishment clause. I remember that was a lot of case law is not a case lots with the people want work and give the people what they want right after that you get the free exercise clause and again similar to how you know Congress is knocking to make any law that is going to promote respect any establishment of religion ear.

Also, you have no prohibition of the free exercise of your own religious rights and the government cannot establish a religion and but they also can't prohibit you to for practicing your within limits and we talked about his limits your own real religion there some solid religions out there to check the next clause is going thought about freedom of speech and the press, and a freedom of speech that's that's a whole episode by itself as the one that that a lot of people come to an eight unit freedom of speech year First Amendment.

I think most non-constitutional scholars. They look at.

They look at that first minute as being just free-speech base and that's what they really harp on and that's the thing people really associated with an enigma finishes up people peaceably so you have the right to peaceably assemble. So you know how to write a riot you don't have the right see you to fortify a police station and hole up in it, but you have the right to peaceably assemble and is a nice call.

That's another another classic, the outlaw your podcast a radio episode. We talked about writing. Check it out.

So the First Amendment is chalked full of of rights and so in you. If you read about Supreme Court cases they come.

I said okay will this amendment.

One of the ways you can think of it in this context of privacy as this is a this is the this is your founders trying to protect your privacy of beliefs right you have the right to believe their computer chips and vaccines, if that's what you want to believe you have you have a right to believe and practice in your believe anything you will practice your religion and the government can't can't can't be a can't keep you from exercising freedom of speech, no Facebook might be able to get NS out I was gonna touch on that because you get to see a lot if you spent a lot of time on Facebook you got the right friends, you see a lot of people who who may get banned from Facebook have a post taken down and there up in arms because there First Amendment right is being infringed. And that's that's not without you know again it's the government's doing these things.

It's it you know a private actor discriminate against your your right to think or your ability to speak. That's not what the First Amendment protects right when your boss fires you for for espousing beliefs they don't agree with. That's not that's not that there is a boss maybe your boss is the government in which they may have an issue but right just generally that's not the case right so that's the best the First Amendment and then we also need to get good close look at the third amendment. It's a little dated but it reads the text of the third amendment of the Bill of Rights reads no soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law. Not really worried about this happening right now that I guess it could, if it wasn't detected in the concert you what may not open my house to the soldiers it was needed and we would we give them a comfortable place to stay. With all my many children there's a Simpsons. I don't remember that I don't member that severs a Simpsons where Homer gets really good and drunk me John at somebody and say yes to one for the Constitution, the king of England could come right into your house, and I encourage all of our listeners to let the veteran stay with you and live with you. So this this amendment, when courts cut a look at this zone of privacy. They call this privacy of home against the demands of the government right so this is what they can we, reduces the government and there's other ones that old, playing with this but this is the privacy of your home against demands from the government system, look at this from a privacy aspect and and I think we can all agree there's few things more important than having that expectation of privacy in your home at your home, and we should all have the right to fill very private, against the demands of the government are home, send, and the next year. The fourth amendment is that excellent room, take a look at and I cannot builds on that, but it does build on that and I was kinda segueing into it, but that the fourth amendment says the right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched and the persons or things to be seized. We talk about this a lot in law school. Josh, if you saw what I am not me, Joseph, we are not the criminal law attorneys at at our firm what her name or but if you practice criminal law.

The fourth amendment is your bread-and-butter if you're practicing criminal come see the so this is another tentpole so this is protecting the this is how the founders, try to protect the privacy of your person and your possessions and in and so many cases every year dealing with the fourth amendment and when what the government can do what's reasonable and this is where we will begin the discussion today but you know the Kimberly guy's name now who who leaked how the NSA was listening everybody's phones Snowden that Snowden had one of his fellow yeah so you know when you see something like that and I still thought enough people to get mad about that. What you should be to. It should make you upset.

What you do about it.

We peaceably assemble and we don't let them be quartered in our house.

Other options I would argue fourth amendment is one of the most important important ones we have there in the Bill of Rights.

And that's another tentpole that is again protecting I think I goes with the home thing, but protecting your privacy. It's a massive tentpole and it's it's kind of the foundation upon which so much criminal procedure is built upon a motion. Think about it, but I would have to think on a sound borders a sound that would go with massive tentpole man massive tentpole.

I don't know how much you look at how I'll do it. I'll be digging in the interim awareness get where we don't have to anymore these to look at the kinda get our privacy discussion underway, but the Fifth Amendment guys come along that I was gonna read it so we've read the text, but no person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise in famous crime and less on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces. Basically, the Army, nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb, nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property without due process of the law, nor shall private property be taken for public use without just compensation. There's a lot there in the Fifth Amendment that was a lot, Josh. I was following along with you, and I thought several times during this is a lot so this is a you know you got a lot of stuff in here. You got your double jeopardy in here. See can't be tried for the same crime twice he's got due process of law.

You get due process of law, and you've got your your I was caught it, your liberty clause, but you can't be you know you can't be deprived of life, liberty, or property without due process of laws that's very important. One very very important one, and you can't, you know that's that's that fit the minute I plead the fifth. There, that should be on here for sure. Yeah, nor shall private property be taken for public use of that site, you know, eminent domain, governor can come take your house just for the heck of it in lessee's there's a proceeding and there's a you know proceeding to determine the value and you get just compensation for that taking.

I think we know from the privacy standpoint is kind privacy of personal information so you can be a witness of against yourself. The government cannot use your personal information against you against yourself, exactly, that's right. And that brings us to amendment nine. As we cannot accomplish through these to get to the ultimate discussion number. Manon says the enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the peoples of the way the discus interpreted a lot.

Is this kind of a catch like the founders are smart enough to know like these are all the things that are important to us now as we suffered, you know, under the king of England and we know this is what we know we need to protect you from the probably other things in the future you need to be protected from your government.

Governments always the bad guy.

You need to be protected from this kind of a catch is a catch on that you said at the governments always bad guy at least that that's the assumption that's what this is designed to protect against these rights you know are designed to protect you from the government, being the bad guy in the 14th amendment is the last one will look at which come out of the Bill of Rights now, but the 14th amendment gets talked about a lot is a real quick on a real portion of it anyway.

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States nor shall any State deprive any person of life liberty or property without due process of the law nor 90 person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws of equal protection clauses and there's couple other things but basically applying the Bill of Rights. This is a federal document. This is telling us what the US government. The federal government can't do this on kinda applied that to the states. And because of this, the states also can't do this to you exactly. So if you take this clause and its application to the states and you couple that with the Bill of Rights.

That's basically what the Supreme Court is said gives US citizens the broad right to privacy that were discussing right now.

So all the temples come together they form the privacy tent and that's where we'll go from will kind of build off of that buddies got the background knowledge that they need and I think we can keep discussing some specific case law and elaborate on this coming up next on the outlaw, or we keep talking about your right to privacy. We discussed some early cases dealing with to set up all our tent poles for the right of privacy. It is going to be implied based on what we what we already have in the Constitution, and so this conifer starts to take shape in the 1920s and the 1920s. Just to give you some historical reference.

You have got some some anti-what would you say some anti-sentiment fostered by World War I system anti-international. I don't know the right word. Is there some anti-foreign yeah sure Susie of Xena phobia and I never heard that works like three years ago but yeah you've heard it against the US is kind of hesitant about foreign influences in the US and especially in school, so the first kind of case you want take a look at is called Meyer the Nebraska is from the early 1920s. In this when Nebraska had a law that banned learning for learning foreign languages. I think it was the ninth grade and under. You could teach foreign languages, and Meyer, whoever that was I didn't read the whole case but Meyer took umbrage to that, and the Supreme Court invalidated the Nebraska law banning that and so the Chief Justice of the time was Mike Reynolds and I liked is it will got a quote from the case and I cannot do too much on air reading that can be very exciting but I like this quote I was gonna read it says while this court has not attempted to define with exactness the liberty thus guaranteed the term has received much consideration and some of the included things have been definitely stated, without doubt, it denotes not merely freedom from bodily restraint, but also the right of the individual to contract to engage in any of the common occupations of life to acquire useful knowledge to marry establish a home and bring up children to worship God according to the dictates of his own conscious and generally to enjoy this privileges long recognized that common law is essential to the orderly pursuit of happiness by free men. So here is that your adjustment Reynolds is kind term interpreting life, liberty, pursuit of property and this is kind of where this notion that you have more than just the enumerated rights. That's right, just as Nick Reynolds, an all-time classic, just as he pumped out some of the greatest hits and I think it's fair to say justice Mick Reynolds said that this Nebraska law was no Bueno which I would not know what that meant. Had this law passed.

Yeah, absolutely. And so you see the strands of this was a popular how you use your this is back when public education was kinda coming into full swing, and you had a lot of people who are new to the United States who are really keen on their kids going to public school yet allow parochial schools, Catholic schools, you know they really call it home schooled in, but a lot of kids didn't. But you had this nationwide movement towards public education and so you see a lot of laws early on that have to deal with that exactly and in basically what what justice Mick Reynolds here's doing is is just reinforcing everything stated and in the minutes that we discussed and just applying this concept and again stating that you've got the right to pursue these things and you and you can do that and there that's essentially that the next case was couple years later appears the society of sisters and you were taking applicator cases and is given you like a sentence here, but the court, look at what happened in the previous case the Meyer case and there is an Oregon law that basically said all children have to attend public schools and so that law was going to be on the books and basically all private schools, religious schools, any other option would've closed and every kid would have to go to public school. Yeah so again you see, the court just fleshing out this right to privacy in and again fleshing out the right to raise and educate your kids the way that you see fit. You got the right to to do that in and to do it in private without governmental interference, and this is how you know this.

This ruling is again the court reinforcing that fact. So this was really that the doctrine and it was quiet for a little while. It kinda died down until the 1960s, when you get into the war and courts in the 1960s, the Warren court may issue a ruling in Griswold V Connecticut and that case, the court struck down a state law prohibiting the sale, the possession and the distribution of contraceptives to married couples to work were on birth control Josh were finally there right so this is it's hard for me to believe there was a time when when the government could control this thing is as married couples to so this made it distribution, possession, sale of contraceptives to married couples illegal in the state of Connecticut which made at 70 years ago 65 years ago and that and that's bananas that's been so you an individual has a right to possess and view pornography. So there is a law thing.

It was in Georgia that said, you can't. You can't own. You can't possess pornography, even in your own house.

Even if you're by yourself a lot in it was weird because the court not only said yes, you absolutely can, within even came out and said you at the time it was a currently a lot of states is a crime to make free to produce pornography. If you can't produce pornography to how you want people still did it etiquette and they could be charged with a crime, but they said is not.

It is not crime.

This is really interesting to me not to read more. I got a read ever really quickly and then it just came back to me, but you can still possess it in your house like it wasn't a crown for you to possess it, even though it may have been a crime for someone to produce to make it. I thought that was interesting. That is very interesting and I didn't look like you thought it was interesting know that my face is I'm just thinking about it.

I'm just I'm just really debating the merits of the case and thinking on McGinnis was, 68, 70, but it was Justice Marshall and it was Stanley V. George and so he wrote whatever may be the justifications for other statutes regulating obscenity and he didn't say this but I'll say it is a ton of cases that have to do with pornography we get we can do an episode on back to back to Justice Marshall. We do not think they reach into the privacy of one's own home. If the First Amendment means anything, it means that a state has no business telling a man sitting alone in his own house and I would say doesn't have to be a line exactly I don't like others. Justice is assuming that people aren't watching their pornography in large groups of individuals back to the quote what books he may read or what films he may watch our whole constitutional heritage rebels at the thought of giving government the power to control men's minds. I thought that was a fine quote I think is a great quote and I think it's something that by God. Every single person should be able to agree with II don't see any benefit to the alternative of allowing those types of things to be dictated is a slippery slope Joseph. It's a very slippery slope. I like how you work that into our pornography discussion at the right so that kinda gives you that that's kind of the early cases can get you to where the courts thinking about the zone of privacy and how it needs to be protected. The gods are that the recorded 1969 could predict the state of pornography today versus what it was in 1969 he refers to reading books. I'm assuming they had pornography books where it was literally just spoken word. At one point I don't know man, I don't think they and only make it unforeseen.

The pornography avalanche that we would see today.

That's yeah that's a whole whole separate topic, but again during the privacy of your own home. It will, why should the government be able to dictate what you do so. Next up in excitement, rinsing, look at more recent cases because there some there's some big time issues that are are coming into our our tents are zone of privacy will talk about those at next we also want to remind you guys that Josh and I again practicing partnering attorneys with the law firm of Whitaker Hamer.

We always want you guys to know you can reach out to us at any time via phone at 1-800-659-1186 or you can text us at that same number very easy to text us please everyone.

Texas right now even your questions your concerns your thoughts what you like to hear us talk about. You can visit us@theoutlaw.com. You can email us at questions plural that's questions that the outlaw law.

Your.com and were on all social media minus Instagram at the outlaw lawyer to get on the Instagram us with the kids there only Instagram kids are on their get on Instagram, we should we get the tick-tock account. The snake has lost a lot of viewers to make some there's a whole market of people out there that we can cater to their a lot of important rights protected by the constitutional right to privacy, including abortion I Joseph said our where were pretty far along in our journey we get into the 70s to the present, and I don't know if there's a more important no matter what side of it. Your on this debate. I don't know if there's a more important recent case under this topic, then rose to the Wade really never heard of it income up in Moscow.

No man, I've never it never heard of it. That's brand-new never heard it mentioned in the news thousand times the minutes and it's an important case. That's why I was a graduate law school you went to.

I know it was is the same one you went to the master lost I went to the other dad, with the law school of hard knocks yesterday didn't cover that is in the streets learn the laws from the people. Yes, I used to be good law school back in the day, you just live that you just exactly there's a very famous attorney, soft. You know I would treat myself like I'm a boxer you know I can box for 30 seconds, but I find out of the South run at a certain man at 30 seconds. The intent that 30 seconds, but there was, there is an attorney there and he came back from World War II and very smart guy, very good attorney practice for a long long time, but he did go to law school. They came out back then you just sit for the bar you passed it you are an attorney yeah man that would save me substantial sums of money and but no man. I enjoy my law school experience and I was really molded into the lawyer I am today. So Roe V Wade, we don't really have that you were not really worried about the case here as much oil as much of the result and so this was. There was a time period where abortions in any form or not, not legal and states, governance, or some states were more lenient than other states. And so this this was not available to the women at the time and so Ruby Wade landmark 7 to 2 is very interesting to read about it, but, but, yes, the zone of privacy.

You print your body. It was said, hey, you know, women have a right to abortion and it stood yet since 1970 tunes. I think there's some unit is always some worry this can be revisited because they are passionate and we were not gonna wait and see to this issue when I can't take sides of an issue, but albeit to say there's passionate folks on both sides of this debate. I think it's incredibly fair to say that there is a substantial amount of passion on both sides, to the point. There is individuals willing to carry out violence because of their passion about this issue. There's few issues that are that have this level of passion behind them. So again and like you said there's there's been a lot of concern about this being revisited hasn't happened yet. There's been a lot of speculation that's one of the that's one of the key factors you hear debated when there are new appointments to the Supreme Court.

You hear a lot about concerns over this this case being, you know, revisited in some way so you know the due process clause of the 14th amendment protects against state action that affects the right to privacy and a woman's right to choose to have an abortion. The court is held fall squarely within that right to privacy. Like you said Josh it falls within that zone of privacy, so any state law that broadly prohibits abortion without respect to the stage of pregnancy or certain other interest violates that right in the 14th amendment, yeah, doesn't allow states to to make laws that you know if you restrict this right.

You know it's gotta be compelling interest in. There's a whole.

This could be a whole episode, so we will get to more into it than that but these minutes all work together to create this right and then to extend it on you know onto the state where the state can do it but you Supreme Court once precedent and this is it.

This is a precedent and in not often, our precedents overturned. Yes or some of them and sitting for like 50 years now. I could see people being worried about the Supreme Court going back and and limit trying to limited or is again everything in the laws competing interest right so you got on the side of abortion, you got people who are certainly concern for a woman's right to choose, and you got the site. It's concern at what point does the does the fetus become someone who is entitled to constitutional protections as well. You know it exactly like you said, there's competing interest there and that's how the state has always looked at in the course look that there are legitimate interests in protecting the health of pregnant women and then also that that as they call it that potentiality of human life and the inner really have to weigh those interests and I think the courts always held that there's kind of a sliding scale.

Were they that interest varies over the course of pregnancy and you know there needs to be distinctions in the law that account for that variability to make a bold bold last segment prediction Joseph do it as a country I don't think we will ever agree on the abortion issue. I think that's a fair thing to say and I don't see a path to agreement on it because again it's a hot button issue.

Any time you have an issue that is has provoked and caused people to literally commit acts of violence, vandalism, things of that nature. It's hot button issue missed the very definition of a hot button issue is was hot.

This is about as hot as they get.

I remember I think the first Atlantic debate in high school and the first day that was the first issue dogmatic him at a gate swing.

The service continues.

Unit 103 Lawrence B Texas you got a case here were there was a law that made you know side