Mask Mandates - Title Theft Insurance - Gabby Petito Case

Mount Laurel lawyer Joe and I talk about mask mandates and title insurance. Is it a scam. Talk about all that next spring court has said that the bottom and you'll jump out and now outlaw law, you Josh Whitaker welcome the outlaw lawyers Josh Whitaker and Joe Haber Whitaker and Hamer law firm six combined years of various offices in Raleigh garnered Clayton Goldsborough Fuquay Marina we talk all kinds of family law, criminal and traffic personal injury, real estate closings, estate planning and administration. If it's legal were talking about it on the outlaw lawyers.

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Gentlemen, welcome then it's been a crazy week.

Look forward to this topic. I mean so many different topics of discussion, but get us started organizing start off and thank you for again an incredible incredible intro do you do a fantastic job every time a really one day hopefully hundreds of years in the future because of medical advancements when I pass away. I want you to to narrate my funeral just like that, I come at a price, but that we can negotiate certainly Will Joe lots to talk about it you know we started to show the goal was the pool items out of the new cycle that maybe attorneys could examine from a legal perspective, look at statutes look at case law, look at, like a news item like it was coming to our offices as part of a consult so that that's the goal of the show seems like all we do talk about covert wheat we do talk a lot about covert man. I think we have the goal of the shows a noble and great goal, but it does seem like the news fails us from time to time and had no work were doing the show weekly and the new cycle doesn't always produce the best topics to discuss. In that manner so we we make the best out of it. We try to do the questions but we do end up coming back to covert a lot because that's so prevalent in the news, Josh, and so we spent a lot of time talking about vaccine mandates can your employer, make it a vaccine. Can the federal government get you to get a vaccine sweep.

We can discuss that. And, we would never discuss a mask mandates in any shape or form and its a little bit different than the vaccine discussion so that I think that topic is ripe to be discussed so that we get that one pretty high on the list today so you will will talk about covert because this is what it seems to be what we we tend to do again going to the new cycle and that dominates the new cycle it's ever present were also to talk about the Gabby Petit okay switches is also been a super relevant news item really blown up in the media really blown up virally and will, look at that from the angle here. There's not a ton of technical legal discussion we can talk about some of the nuances of you know that the primary suspect in the case invoking his his Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination. But what you cannot talk about this. This recent trend of kind of crowd sourced investigation where social media has become more prevalent and we've seen we've really seen a lot of individuals getting involved via social social media with these ongoing investigations.

In this this most recent example has really really been interesting to look at as far as the sheer participation on various social media outlets from just tons of individuals kind of amateur detectives if you will.

What's interesting to me. You may not know this Joseph, but when I was coming up your undergrad I was NC State. I was in their major. That's the equivalent of a wooden college journalism major, but it was basically the equivalent of a journalism major, and so we would sit with people are instructors or were folks used to work as editors for the Raleigh times in the news and Observer and the further I got along that major things are talk about is what is news and how do you approach reporting the news and what makes it in the back than the newspaper right and and what does it and so it always surprises me when stories like this is Gabby Hayes. Their last names are with potato potato. That's what were doing.

That's overgrown with colored I'm color Gabby is this is an unfortunate story matter how you look at it and it says just terrible all the way around in these families will be forever changed. But when something just goes this viral everybody reports on it every second of the day it just it always it always surprises me how it takes it over takes over the new cycle and it really has man it's proliferated the news every night and it's always interesting to look at the factors you know of what you know people things like this. Unfortunately happened far too frequently and we don't always hear about it, especially in this level of detail in your that's that's almost its own discussion. There's a lot of people who theorize as far as whether there are certain interracial factors behind that whether certain individuals due to, for whatever reason you get more attention for one reason or another and there's a lot of factors you can really look at but I think a big factor in this case in particular is the victim unit was very very active on social media. There was a lot of things that you know people could really look at in trace by looking at social media as a result of that, and so that really aided in the captivation of a lot of individuals who are spending a lot more time at home looking at the computer searching social media and in, looking for something to do something.

It's kind like a perfect storm that really made this case at take off in the public eye and and kind of become viral in the way that has well to I wanted to warn our listeners.

We had a couple of we had a couple listeners call in with you know we had a couple service call in or interact with us on on social media talk about the mask mandate and we talk about the mask mandate.

We are not doing it from me and Joe consider ourselves to be pretty much a political and we don't we don't really think about things along party lines are the evil Democratic Party or the evil Republican Party when we talk about something were talking about it as as disassociated as as we possibly can. We have our own personal opinions. For sure, but we never do anything about party lines is only talk about the mask mandate were really concerned with is it legal. How does it affect you and just kind, look at the arguments on both sides, but you'll never hear me and Joe told party lidar promote one party over the others just really not what were about to show or even personally. Yeah, I think we we really lament that as far as how the news these days really tends to kinda split equally across party lines and you know what what various news outlets report can really be heavily dictated by the political leanings or affiliation of the viewers of of the news so yeah you're right, Josh. We we try and again we are for him were not perfect. We may not be the best job always been our goal here again is always to be completely apolitical to look at things from a neutral perspective and what that means is is what I can just look at an argument when I can always just look at something to make an argument for one side or the other unit we may take a stance based on our understanding of the law and say this is what the law says, but that shouldn't be confused with really advocating for either side of position will work and always try to do is as fairly as we can't and present both sides of the argument so you know, if we talk about the mask mandate and we talk about you that the Pro mask side of the argument were also going to give you the anti-mask side of the argument and and I don't want anyone to confuse our explanation of both of those perspectives would be in us advocating for either position again. We had some folks that are angry and you were just presenting the information as best we can from both sides and it's not necessarily that were advocating for either side were just putting out there the art try to be as balanced and fair as we can because again that that's where a lot of our frustration comes from with with the news today is you. You get one side of the other, as opposed to getting a more complete full picture that will allow you to kind of form your own opinion about it in our last topic. If we have time. One of the things we want to talk about was that I came up twice for me this week in my practice, people asking me about title theft insurance so Joe and I will wear attorneys with Whitaker and Hamer.

We do a lot of real estate transactional. Thousands and thousands of real estate transactions a year. We do a lot in title insurance police questions were about title, theft insurance, and so I want to spend some time talking about the difference in in those are and and talk to people. I think there's been a recent mailing by title theft insurance. As I got a lot of people ask me questions what authority had title insurance, and is I will. I want to talk about that Gillette might not be the most exciting topic in the world, but title theft insurance. I think it needs to be talked about Josh, if you could hear my heart beating right now out of my chest with excitement. I feel like I just took a shot of adrenaline man hearing you talk about title theft insurance. I don't isolate guys title theft insurance is sexy.

It's it will bring it back the streets won't work in more information about title a lot of time in the streets, and I can confirm every way almost every person I speak to randomly they they they say you that your that outlaw long ago right one of those guys can can you talk about title theft insurance. There's begging for yeah go now when we hear maybe she will wait for it.

You went to several minutes in the show before we get to the meat that is a desert to guys show sounds fantastic. Can't wait to get into the meat of its yellow lawyers, Josh Whitaker, Joe Hamer, Whitaker and Hamer law firm again.

46 combined years experience and have offices in Raleigh, Garner Clayton, Goldsboro and Fuquay Marina and were in a talk all kinds of criminal and traffic family law, personal injury, estate planning and administration, real estate closings. Basically it's what Josh and Joe acquire over the previous week and they just want talk about it when and where and what it means for you legally and have that discussion and certainly if you want to get in touch of the program. If you got a legal question. Here's the number 800-659-1186 again 800-659-1186.

Leave the detailed information with your contact info and an attorney from Whitaker and Hamer will be in touch to have that conversation.

You can also email the program a question that's questions at the outlaw, that your.com.

You can check out the website, the outlier.com on the world wide web back right after this masks in school don't go to your local school board meeting and try to fight the people there. Just listen to our show and planning and ministration, personal injury, criminal and traffic family law. If you got a question a legal question about anything that were talking about maybe you need some help. Here's the number to call 800-659-1186. That's 800-659-1186, leave a detailed information and attorney from Whitaker and Hamer will be in touch again questions. If you want a question answered on the show we will take those questions and on a upcoming show.

We will answer those questions, just email the question. Two questions@theoutlier.com and please go to the website. The outlaw along your.com and kick the tires there guys.

I know that there's been a lot about the mask update and everything that's going on in the state of North Carolina. What's the latest will kids going back to school. They have been for a while now and so the masks in school debate is, reaching a fever pitch.

Would you say that is an accurate description. Joshua I would I would I know in wake County. We had a mask mandate. I suppose for a while and some towns in the cities joined as posers of federal mask mandate and in place as well, which is kind of funny because in my day-to-day so you me and Joe.

We were in the Whitaker and Hamer suite over at the PNC and enjoyed a little WW the Monday night raw this past Monday and did see a lot of mask. We didn't seal him.

Has to you do this and that's not entirely accurate to use all the number of mask in the way that the PNC handles it is is kind of its situational in the sense that I think they let the performers, dictate you know whether they're going to mandate a vaccine or a negative test in and there I think technically everyone should have the mask on. Use all the more in line and you saw the more wouldn't when everybody was kinda traversing the concourse and going to concessions but yet you don't you'll see it.

Hardly anyone wearing a mask when you're sitting down it's it's very few and far between, and again it's all about you know you got individuals that are stationed around and it's kind of in their discretion to enforce the in its images cannot it's it's kind of strange man.

It's a strange thing because it's a hot button issue. We talk about these hot button issues all the time, especially as we get into discussing the Masten school. It becomes a wildly hot button issue. Could you involve children and you you have parents who have extremely extremely strong opinions about you know what their kids should or should not be doing and you see a whole lot of conflict Josh yeah definitely you know going back have been sued over the past couple weeks have been to a state game over Carter Finley we been through a Lou Combs concert would be no Willie Nelson concert we seen some wrestling so been in a couple different venues, seeing the artist have different requirements and then powered by dealt with that yet. When you when you bring it when you bring into the schools is one thing I never really understood you know the people that have really and and I know our listeners and have opinions.

Either way with the people that are so dug in one side or the other people can't seem to both sides. Right on. Can't seem to sit down's, reasonably let's figure out some sort of compromise or can't talk about what were trying to accomplish and make some maybe some reasonable rules and end but yet there's been all kinds a little viral videos of parents fighting at board meetings and board meetings get canceled someone's yelling and definitely death will come about, no, no reasonable civil debate on this issue. Seems like everybody's one or the other out of the everybody's at way. I mean, I think there there are some people that are probably can take a pretty reasonable, balanced approach to it, like were trying to do, see both sides, but those aren't the ones that are making the viral videos and those are the ones that are going to the school board meet and get real fired up yelling at everybody gets that's the real litmus test of whether an issue is a hot button issue or someone really cares about it when someone's really willing to go to a public forum and just scream it people and berate them yet that's started somebody else today, having coached youth basketball and wrap some youth basketball and school board folks are volunteers. It always shocks me how some people are okay with really just let loose on a you know volunteer or you know just ran like I remember I coached a game of eight-year-old and 89-year-old basketball is the first day my referee and it was in a park and rec have a Lou a lower level of 89-year-old basketball and the amount parents is railed on me to earn the game having at least an average referee at this point in my life, but yeah there's a lot of people they don't mind doing that. I guess you shouldn't miss that travel call Josh Jimmy. But yeah so anyways me the mask mandates in school with a hot button issue.

As of this recording.

I think at least 14 states have actually filed lawsuits either for or against the mask mandates and it's and it's led to a lot of protests it's it's led to a lot of litigation and has led to some violence so you can't diving into this topic. I think the first thing we kinda need to establish and and again Josh. We are scientists by any stretch of the imagination. I don't think anyone would confuse us. For scientists, but we are able to take the scientific information available and kinda presented so the scientific argument that is advanced for wearing mask is it's really twofold, and it's in is fairly simple. I think anybody can really understand it and that's one wearing a mask contains our own secretions and that you know the particulate matter that we exhale and it can kinda contains it and reduces the spread of that and it also protects against the secretions and in the particulate matter that is exhaled by other individual so it kinda protects others in a kind of protection was well and I and I think that's a dumb down explanation of the scientific argument for mask wearing a dumbed down version is about all we can be expected, the best you get from us is that dumbed down version so that's that's a scientific argument in a nutshell, and that is the case that science is made, and I think the unfortunate thing about the mask mandate and and really about a lot of things related to COBIT is the fact that it was never at there was never really a point where we all just kinda looked strictly at the science because everything got so heavily politicized.

Almost immediately, and and everything became more of a political debate and in science kinda got cast to the side because based on your political beliefs in the way that this is presented in the news in the way that some various political parties discuss it. You can't get divided into two camps and and the science gets politicized to the point where you got people on both sides disbelieving the science because of their political views. Essentially having a lot of it to the leadership I did a poor job of educating people and that against him steer us away as a society steered us away for mask early brought him back and then you have the different kinds of mass the people where I see a lot of people wearing mask that probably aren't making much of a difference.

You know and and visitors to keep it all act together and then I understand why some people are kind dug into their position on both sides. Yeah, you know, I think the initial reversing of course from the CDC. Nothing coming out against mass and then almost immediately, come back and reversing course, I can see I can see where that can throw some people off and then you kinda have no news outlets and media and then again it people on both sides of the political outcome pouncing on that and driving the divide, and that's kinda what drives the views and that's kinda what drives the clicks and so rather than you know see in many people who are encouraging a kind of balanced approach or like you said some form of compromise or discussion on this. You just kinda see exacerbation of the issue on both sides so you know there's been a lot of issues with the mandates and you know some states it outright. Come out and ban those mandates. We seen a lot of lawsuits.

As a result of that and you know you you see a lot of just noncompliance and just outright, almost violent defiance of a lot of the mandates that have been put into place and man it's it's it's one of those things and how do you how do you calm down either side of the argument and even bring anyone to compromise, because again people are so fired up man. If you're willing to sit when you get to the point where you're willing to do the screaming at the school board meeting. That's almost a point of no return man.

Yeah, and that's the best thing we see a lot of these issues as is and that's where like that if you want to wear a mask, I get it you know if you if you want everybody to wear a mask I can. I can kinda get where you're coming from but when you when you get to that point where you can't even talk about it reasonably. I think that's that's that's that's a problem when we were seeing that you know I'm in the news cycle doesn't help in everything that we talked about but not being able to discuss things reasonably on both sides is is a big problem in its exasperated. This is like the perfect storm. This mask mandate has to do with people's children is like the perfect storm for you know I strong emotions on both sides.

Yeah that's right man and and I think like you said there's there's arguments on both sides, I think, kind of, you know, we can kinda touch on the arguments on both sides, because it me there for their fairly straightforward. As far as the argument for masks and schools you got people who point to the science and say you know the science says that wearing a mask is gonna be beneficial. It's going to reduce the spread social distancing also helps as well, but it's a little bit more difficult because of resources and space to socially distance. All the kids so the mask is really that the best form of protection we can give the kids they can't be vaccinated.

If you strongly believe in the efficacy of the vaccine. A lot of the kids can't be so a lot of people think it's the only thing that can really be done to to prevent the spread in children and on the other side of it, how you got folks who really see it as kind of a body autonomy issue or of freedom issue.

They don't want to be told what to do. That will be told what their kids have to do. They want to be free to make those decisions for their kids. They may question the effectiveness of the masks and think that the science is a little muddled. That's was so interested man, you can have people on both sides of the aisle that are like they can look at the same study and and and come to different conclusions about it and a lot of these people are qualified to be analyzing any kind of scientific study at it and it's just funny but you kinda see both you know. You see, super strong opinions on both sides of the aisle. I don't I don't see any compromise, between those those two very diametrically opposed opinions like we talk about Joe.

It's you know it's gotten to a point where we squeezed all agree what the news was right. We can look at the events of the day, and as a society we can all agree that a president spoke with you and this laws can be debated in Congress and in it we all agreed with the news was that we may have different opinions on what happened but we knew what is the same thing like a scientific study, we get a scientific study in a matter what it says it is and says what you like that of course you look at the authors was this peer-reviewed and was it almost doesn't matter what comes out anymore is going to be instantly parsed and discredited or are accredited politically admit I don't I don't know what I don't know what the answer is almost do about it. I just try to really fight that urged to take a quick opinion and really try to absorb any information I can to try to make up a reasonable decision. But it's hard to do guys out.

I just want to jump in and say it is frustrating when you see the clips on TV of the school board meeting and Peano grown adults screaming each other down and I almost want to take the term from years ago when your parents would put you in time out. Just kinda cool you off and there are certain cases that we've seen certain incidents where we seen it or they just need to back up and and have your calm our discussions if possible. But it's almost likely gone down the rabbit hole and it's hard to it's hard to come back from them but at least be calm respect each other and respect the opposing opinion and maybe we can talk our way through these things, the outlier's, it's Josh Whitaker and Joe Hamer. You can find them at Whitaker and Hamer law firm 46 combined years experience again. They have offices in Raleigh, Garner Clayton, Goldsboro and Fuquay Marina if you got legal questions of your own, or you got a question about what we've been talking about today what we will continue to talk about on the other side. Please give us a call 800-659-1186 leave us a detailed message with the attorneys at Whitaker and Hamer will give you a return call and get your information and if you want to ask a question of the show that we can answer on a future program just emails questions@theoutlier.com.

And of course always go to the website. The outlier.com coming up next, we wrap up our mask in school debate and discussion, and we get into the Gabby case and crowdsourcing of criminal and or them.

And folks, if you got questions on the legal side, but anything we've been talking about or maybe something is going on in your world and you just want some questions answered.

Here's the number to call 800-659-1186, 800-659-1186. You may want to leave a question for the show certainly do that again. You may have a legal question of your own. Your emails a question that we can use in future program questions@thelolyour.com you can also go online the alkali or.com and check out the program there.

We talk legal each and every week you're on the outlier's and guys I know you wanted to wrap up mask in schools conversation and then get into. Probably one of the biggest stories we've had about at least 70 since the pandemic. That's right, Morgan. You know, we talked a lot we kind of we kind of rambled a little bit as we are apt to do. We have really got into the legal meat of the mask in school mandate and and it's kind of it's kind of a tricky subject it to touch on in just one segment, but will Try to put a bow on it you noticed every state, handles this mask mandate issue differently. Some states of outright and mask mandates and using some pushback on that you seen the note. Gov. DeSantis in Florida is is basically threatened to withhold salaries of school board members who try to uphold or enforce mask mandates and you see a lot of parents pushback in their arguments.

Basically, these parents pushing back is that essentially I'm free to raise my kids and to make these kind of health decisions for them in any way I see fit, and in Josh. I guess the question I posed you is it is that is parental freedom to do that to raise their kids as they see fit. What it is that an unlimited right now. I think I think if you take a look at the Supreme Court cases that that revolve around vaccination and and in healthcare for children and is not unlimited and and I don't think it ever and ever has been. So there's a Supreme Court case, we will we will bill to far in Subic Prince versus Massachusetts the Supreme Court held that parents are not free to make martyrs of their children are not free in the name of this case involved religious objection to medical treatment so parents aren't free in the name of religion to pose harm to their children or in the case of communicable disease to permit their own religious beliefs to impose harm or the risk of communicable diseases.others, and so the Supreme Court talks about this a lot. There a lot of cases.

Going back to vaccines needed for schools, what kind of religious exemptions are available. Everything about the law. The law is definitely not putting his parents, hands, and unlimited right to raise her kids anyway that they see fit. We always talk about balancing equities and swings on the court gets in this discussion are going to balance your right to raise your kid the way you want versus you know harm to others in society units. The same balancing equation 8 years and a lot of different constitutional right type of cases it's your freedom, your freedom to raise your kids versus the freedom of other people to raise their kid and how those things, come together yet. You really said it and I think that kind of puts a good a good bow on on this aspect of the show.

In this conversation.

It's not an unlimited right. It's not an unfettered right you know there's argument, there's arguments both ways and there's arguments that you know it's not.

There's definitely authority to impose these mandates and then again the other side of the coin is that you know there it it conflicts with certain note very important rights and again like you said it's a balancing act in with with all the litigation were seeing it's it's a relatively the mask things a relatively new issue. As far as its proliferation into general society and how how prevalent it's become so to be very interesting to see how these things, develop and and what kind of rulings we see come down and Joe you'd mentioned to me earlier. You know I had looked too much into one of the Department of Justice came out in the states that are defying mask mandates or outlawing outgoing mask mandates that the Department of Justice is kind taken the stance or lease beginning to uptake the posture that this may be in violation of the Americans With Disabilities Act, whereas your refusal to cooperate with the mask mandate may be putting disabled Americans at higher risk to maybe can't get the vaccine or or what have you. So there's a lot of interesting legal arguments being put out there for or against, and I will again make a famous bold prediction that this will not be the last time that we discussed this topic. It's with this man discovered stuff it's changed it's change the game is really split everybody right half right in the middle and I think we will also make another bold prediction that there is no way to reverse the politicization the politicizing of the issue and unfortunately I think we will just see that division cannot continue to grow. Maybe I'm wrong, I love to be wrong I would love to us all to just kind of reach a place of harmony and peace and hold hands and sing songs and beat covert together Kumbaya. I like it I like it. So the biggest story that we have seen him in recent weeks, Donna played out on social media.

Joe I know you're you're in tune with this and it's a situation where it was a cross-country trip that turned into a missing person that turned into a delayed report of the missing person and then the person that was with them, then disappeared and now we've got a body and now we got a a manhunt going on that is a very accurate summary to that you know I'm semi in tune with this. It's hard to say that I'm truly in tune with this because again the level of the level of attention that this is gotten on social media in the news there's people who are super in tune with this and there's people who again there with covert there's a lot of folks spend more time at home spend more time on their computers spend more time on social media and a lot of those individuals are dedicating a lot of that time to do things like this to do these kind of you know these things pop up in the news these these crimes are these mysteries and a lot of people can really get absorbed.

So yes I am in tune, but there are some individuals that are just incredibly in tune to the point where it's almost like there detectives on the case and the and the really contracted down every lead so it's been very interesting to see how that's developed and it's not necessarily a new thing, but with you know, the prevalence of social media increasing we we really seen some growth in this is been one of the more interesting examples of that in recent memory. I was just a mistake and you guys summarize the players involved in what happened CSO unit the FBI they announced on Sunday that they they had found a a body that they believed to be will just will call her Gabby and on Tuesday they confirmed that it was her so so just to give you some background, then we can kinda go through a timeline of of the events just to get everybody up to speed in her Gabby was a 22-year-old Instagram influence.

Her boyfriend was a 23-year-old O'Brien laundry and again there there cases recently just kinda dominated the news and social media.

The two of them embarked on a road trip together from laundry's family home, which was in Northport, Florida that was in June 2021. They were reportedly planning on traveling Weston and kinda seeing a lot of state and national parks. In July, 20, 21, they traveled through Colorado and into Utah. And you know Gabby was kind of a social media influencer so she really chronicled this trip with the hashtag Van life and kinda posted a lot of aspects to it. So I think that's one of the things that that made this more popular and kept it in the public eye because you could really go and tracer steps along the journey. You can really kinda do your own investigation and it really led to a lot of viral popularity made this one of the biggest stories that we've seen this year as I guess so. That was June and in July the that they were traveling and soaked in August by August 12.

That's when the incident happened. There was a domestic dispute between Alki calling Gabby and Brian always take on people what their last names and the Sheriff's office out there in Utah got involved and a call or a call or call 911 claiming he witnessed Brian slapping Gabby and chasing her up and down the sidewalk there in Utah and hitting her barely distinct place on Main Street and it was reported was between a young couple driving a van with a Florida license plate which would would make you believe it was it was between our folks that were following yeah and so actually the police would locate that van they would pull the couple over an and in fact it was it was Gabby and Brian and in another interesting aspect.

Again, this is when you see these things unfold. It's amazing how much access that that you have in today's day and age with with all the cameras with all the recording that goes onto this actually body cam footage that's been released of this traffic stop and and in that the couple admits to arguing and it's it's funny because actually it's Gabby that they allege that it's Gabby that actually slapped Brian and they say that he didn't touch her essentially honest of the body cam footage is been a little bit controversial because the people who have looked at it and again, people have looked at and analyzed in an really pulled apart every single detail of this folks have a lot of free time and folks to spend their free time doing things like this. But there's one portion of the video that's really been heavily criticized, where it almost seems like the officers that are called to the scene, kind of bond with Brian and at one point there actually kinda joking, joking with them about. You know how women can be in identifying him as the victim, which again and in the officers defense if if you approach a situation in and you're told by two individuals that that she was striking him.

I mean you. It's hard to to really be too upset or to judge them too much without being there, but at the same time.

It is a little concerning that you can get a 911 call from eyewitness saying that there's a woman that's being abused and this is how the situation is approached and resolved and so soon after that the last time Gabby was seen alive was checking out of a hotel in Salt Lake City, Utah is August 24 and in Gabby's mother spoke to her on the 25th Gabby was excited they were leaving Utah and they were headed up towards Yellowstone and then that was it.

Gabby Gabby is off the radar after that. Yeah so she's completely off the radar and like you said her mother. It was unusual for her to go off the radar. They kept in close contact.

They spoke frequently, if not constantly, and you know like her mom said she sounded excited and she sounded like she was, you know, enjoying the trip and looking forward to continuing it, but that communication ceases and kinda stops now Gabby's mother does say that she received two text messages from Gabby's phone after the 25th, but there were no details there were no photos of the trip so you know it's really unclear whether those were messages that were actually sent by Gabby or whether perhaps they were sent by some other individual that that had control of her phone at the time so the last photograph that is uploaded to Gabby's Instagram account is actually from the 25th so that's really that's really the point where we, lose contact with her and so between August 27 and the 30th federal and state authorities said it. Investigators believe Gabby disappeared near the spread Creek dispersed camping area in Bridger to national Forest in Wyoming. The FBI kinda came out and asked for help from the public via Twitter and then as a result, that on August 29 that there's another lead.

You know, a witness claimed that she and her boyfriend gave Brian a ride in the grand Teton national Park that day on August 29. Witness claimed that Brian told her and her boyfriend that he had been camping alone for days while Gabby work on their social media page from their van.

Brian kinda vanishes.

Once the witnesses drop them office, where we lose track of O'Brien so yeah and so this is it is very interesting minutes. Couple things that are interesting about one is the FBI, issuing a call for help via Twitter and that that kind of shows you that the day and age were in an that the fact that in and it makes sense man if I ever vanished Josh. I want I want to be the first to say I want you to go to twitter and watch NASCAR millions of followers to come help look for remain crowd source permission to crowd source.

The investigation into my disappearance. To the fullest extent of social media RHI were up against a break so. They are on the other side will continue tracking what happened to Brian after this point, Morgan. If our listers on the contact us with the best way RI Gallo lawyers easily contacted. Here's number 800-659-1186. That's 800-659-1186 if you want to email a question of the program that we can answer on a future program for questions@thellior.com you can always visit the website de alae.com coming up we will finish our discussion of the Gabby Hayes got a legal question. Great time to get in touch obviously 800-659-1186, 800-659-1186.

Leave the detailed information and attorney will be back in touch with you to answer those questions for you. If you have question for the program you want to email it to us. We can use in the future. Show questions@theoutlawallyour.com guys I know you wanted to wrap up the Gabby potato case of mean.

Certainly this this discussion, it's got the entire country focused on that's right and I and I, go back to how she mentioned the fact that there was a witness that claimed she gave and she and her boyfriend gave Brian a ride. I think it's interesting that witness actually claimed in an and put that out there via tick-tock so compact we really need that tick-tock account Josh yeah thought we were. I thought you thought your own metaphors for the scientist on a man they just haven't they they haven't been able to get the formula together. Yep that's that's deftly come in so get back to the facts. You know it witnesses.

The witnesses in this tick-tock post. They claim eight, they dropped off Brian. He kinda vanished from that point.

As far as where they didn't see him. He does return actually back to Florida September 1. He returns home to Florida by himself with no Gabby in Gabby's van and he is not speaking or cooperating in any way to authorities at this point, yeah, yes, disconcerting.

You know and and what September 11 is when Gabby is officially reported missing by her family and then the FBI everybody gets in involved in the laundry family, other I was something about that. Kids always try to think about the parents in both of these both sides.

Here's you know the course. Gabby's parents are your Gabby's missing. It's assumed I guess at least worth assuming that as a country that Brian probably knows what's happened, or at least has some information that he's not sharing a year but his parents have a kid they're worried about to do so is always you know that the law of the laundry family was not talking to anybody about anything they'd consulted an attorney they're not talking and that's exactly what I would've told them if they had. We were representing Brian and his family.

There's is no reason to talk to anybody in the nieces. I suspect at some point in I think it's a stable legal part of this year we becoming 130 facts and there's a lot of stuff going on here. We talk about domestic violence and how that's handled legally but I think the more interesting conversation right now is his kindness is where the Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination really comes in the play, and in it such a tough discussion man because like you said, as a parent you know I have a daughter and you know put myself in the shoes of Gabby's parents note hearing the primary in really only suspect in the case of her disappearance in a pleading the fifth and invoking his right against self-incrimination. It makes me angry and it and it seems it seems you know, completely unjustified from an emotional perspective and images you want to strangle that person basically again, you disconnect yourself from that you take the emotion out of you look at it from a strictly legal perspective. And like you said it's it's exactly what an attorney who has there clients which again their client. In this case being Brian's best interest at heart is going to encourage Brian to do in this case, but man it.

It's tough. It's a tough pill to swallow what I guess we should remind everybody that were taping this prior to air, and so it at the time were taping this brightness has not been located. We haven't heard from Brian.

Everybody still looking for them. That's with the fit commitment was designed to do. You know, public it be amazing, it would seem like at this point. Unlikely, but maybe Brian wasn't at fault.

You know he's not guilty of anything he hasn't had a trial lawyer, but that's what the Fifth Amendment is, for whatever reason when everything else is against you and the public's against you in and Fifth Amendment. That's kinda what saves you from this trial by this trial in the in the public forum, and you know maybe Brian is in the best example to use here just because again, the facts as we know them. You know you you would almost have to assume there some information that he has of relevance because if nothing else, he just up he abandon her to come home in her van. But, but, regardless of the there's countless countless individuals who have been spared from prosecution despite their innocence by invoking that Fifth Amendment and there's also countless individuals who have probably been incarcerated in a wrongly for not invoking that Fifth Amendment for trying to speak and for trying to talk to the authorities and just buy the dinner. The unfortunate nature of the fact that there is human error in our criminal justice system and their senior some individuals that that may not have you noted justice at the forefront of their mind and are just looking for conviction. There's absolutely been people who have suffered by not invoking that right Joe, the Bill of Rights, the Constitution, I think the summary of this is it's an unfortunate situation, but the Constitution still pretty important. I think it's safe to say the Constitution is still pretty important. One aspect that will touch on briefly to what we still have some time is is this whole idea of you know, crowd sourced investigations and the fact that you know you have the FBI asking on Twitter for any kind of assistance they can get and you just have a groundswell of support from individuals who just just Pour their time into doing anything they can to kinda break this case and crack it open and you know there's there's debate about whether or not that's a good thing. And whether you know bringing all these Lehman individuals just just everyday Joe may not be trainer who may be transfer.

There are some people who have substantial training in and things like this who got involved in just wanted to help out, but there's a lot of debate over whether that's a good thing or a bad thing, but like I said, man, if I go missing sound the alarm get everybody on anybody that wants the help please come looking for me. Will gentlemen this case obviously is going to continue and we will probably at our next program talk about it even more. The outlaw lawyers Josh Whitaker Joe Haber Whitaker and Hamer law firm guys what's coming up in our final segment will your final segment room and talk about title theft insurance. What is it. Is it a real thing. Is it a scam thing is delve into next.

All right that's coming up on the outlaw long as you want to get in touch with the program. 800-659-1186, 800-659-1186. You can also email questions to the program questions@theoutlawallyour.com will try to answer those questions in future program and always check out the website, the outlaw light or final segment of the outlaw. Your Josh Whitaker find them again. Offices in Raleigh, Garner, Clayton Goldsborough and Fuquay Marina 46 combined years of variance. We talk of legalese each and every week on the outlaw your eye Morgan Patrick consumer advocate guys you got one more segment and you get to get into some real estate scams, title insurance, title, theft protection, I'm excited sexy it is it is it is Morgan.

I don't and I don't know why you know I usually try to take things that come up from my work week. Things that come up to the office. I don't know why this title theft protection insurance came up so much this week but it did is always assuming I'm getting the question, there's probably other people have the question but you know I think we've said this before, but Whitaker and Hamer, one of our major practice areas as real estate transactions helping people with the purchase of their home or refinance office buildings with residential and commercial transactions and as part of those you get usually most of the time you're getting some title insurance, and so title insurance protects you from a lot of things. Your lender if you have a lender or on your mortgage involved. They want to see that I title insurance. They are so title insurance is very important, very standardized, something that Meehan and Joseph deal with every day.

So the question I got was based on that, you know, we just are some advertisements that they either go out in the mail or play on the radio or the TV, but I had a couple clients asked me if that was the same thing as title, theft protection insurance and an answer is it's not title insurance is a very real and useful product for both you as the owner of property at both for your lender title theft insurance.

I'm not convinced. I'm not convinced what it actually covers you from and in North Carolina. Joseph something you you've heard about it is come up in your practice. I'm sorry, Josh. I've been hyperventilating assessment doing breathing exercises. I got so excited when we mention real estate and I just need to calm down so I'm back to earth.

The premise I think the premise that I googled a couple of title theft title protection they can go under those names. Insurance is getting clicked on the fly. They were all eyes are like 10 ads if you see that many ads for something that you know that's becoming a lucrative industry when that many people are advertising for for your your click there, but I can't figure out what he actually provides you get out of it. In North Carolina, where were Ray state.

First, when the courthouse recording a lien you know that that's kinda what you'll hear attorneys talk about. It is very is not impossible to for a scammer to try to recorded deed or record a lien that may affect your your title it's it's possible those things her own line if you give me a property address. I can pretty much tell you everything about that property who wanted 100 years ago who owns it now, everybody's had a mortgage judgment against him in your divorce if you get divorced that's public record so I can figure out is that as an attorney, you can do pretty mean title search I can figure out everything I need to figure out about you and your property. It's all out there so as easily as I can do it. A fraudster could do it you Josh, you asked the question of title, theft insurance, in and out you would like to make definitive statements here that want to make a really definitive statement about the note, the efficacy of title, theft insurance, but I will just say that it it's hot, hot garbage I getting that while the study, statement, it's, it's funny, Joe. I was I was looking at one of these websites and they had a quote from of all people that Newt Gingrich was on their main page here. I guess he was there paid spokesman but his quote was the type of fraud you really need to worry about his home title fraud were criminals literally remove you from your homes title and they take out loans against your home and leave you in debt, you won't know until late payments or eviction notices arrived I protect my home with I will give you the name of the company, but it was a court apparently from from Newt Gingrich but North Carolina just as it worked that way and I know we been doing this for a while. I have only seen one true case where you know someone tried to forge a deed or do something like that and that was a family member taking advantage of another course. Another family member in older family member but Joe, I just, I don't see this a lot and I don't know you have something like that were to happen yet that's in attorneys you have to help you fix that or law enforcement. I'd I don't know that this insurance really provides anything. Yeah, I think the only thing that the insurance can provide.

Is there going to pay an attorney or you know have some somebody who coordinates with law enforcement kind of undertake on doing this which again how much I don't know the cost. I don't know that the nuances I don't know what they charge you for it, but these are things you gear you would just have to be actively involved in the participation of regardless and it's it's a little like you said how how often you see, it would you're basically a victim of fraud. At this point and you know the information is out there, but our system noted that the Registry of Deeds the way that our state operates and the statutes designed around recordings in general makes it very difficult to to accomplish this, you know, basically, you would have someone who have to forge your signature and then find a notary that is willing to notarize that signature and then take it on down to the courthouse but but but when you when you get into mortgages and then you're talking about so many people that have to be defrauded in so many steps that have to be taken to get to that point that nothing is impossible. Anything is possible, but this seems borderline impossible for someone to do Joe.

I live and breathe real estate law. This is just something is not even on my radar.

Not even concerned about it so I think summation here's title insurance good, very important to have title theft insurance. I can say I spend any money on it. Tell that to Newt Gingrich Josh Cinema letter cry that wraps up our super sexy segment on real estate scams, title insurance, and title theft protection. If you have any legal questions for the outlaw lawyers give him a call 800-659-1186.

That's 800-659-1186.

You can also email your question to the program questions at the outlaw, allow your.com will get to it in a future program and also visit the website of the outlaw lawyer.com another one in the book guys is attorney licensed to practice law in North Carolina just appearing on the show maybe licensed North Carolina attorneys discussion of the chosen to be general in nature and in no way should the discussion be interpreted as legal advice. We would like to be rendered.

Once an attorney licensed in the state in which you live at the opportunity to discuss the backs of your case with you. The attorneys appearing on the show are speaking in generalities about the law, North Carolina, and how these laws affect aboriginal Carolinian. If you have any questions about the content of the show, contact us directly