Third Party Reproduction

A couple of new things that are quite troubling that we now can do that.

Perhaps we ought not do this is with the NC family Pres. John Weston family policy matters.

Our guest today is Jennifer wall founder and president of the Center for bioethics and culture. Jennifer is with us to discuss several scientific and political development in the so-called brave new world of third-party reproduction is a formal pediatric critical care nurse Jennifer has 25 years of experience in the healthcare field. She is routinely interviewed on radio and television programs including ABC, CBS, PBS and NPR in her writings have appeared in a number of publications, including the American Journal of bioethics.

Jennifer has produced or directed several critically acclaimed documentaries as well on third-party reproduction, including exploitation anonymous Father's Day and breeders. A subclass of women, Jennifer, what about family policy matters. It's great to have your Michelle again, thank you, John.

It's good to be with you.

Well, it's always a pleasure to have you and you provide such great insights into this complex medical field as we begin, Jennifer. Reproductive medicine is possibly one of the medical fields that has changed most over the last half-century. In some ways I'm reminded of the question raised by Michael Croydon in Jurassic Park the movie and that is that scientists ought not ask whether something can be done, but rather they should ask whether something should be done now. That seems a particularly relevant question. As we discussed reproductive medicine, what do you see as the most concerning developments in this field, especially when you consider that question of what can be done versus what should be done. Yeah, that's a really good question and from where I sit, because I followed this every single day that the key part of my work is a couple of new things that are quite troubling that we now can do that. Perhaps we ought not to know were moving more and more back down. The designer baby tract if you will wear it or we defeat parents almost ordering their children by design, whether that be picking egg donor or the sperm donor. The surrogate will also just that the whole field of genetic medicine is a couple of other things that trouble me in a couple leading thinkers a few academics out of Stanford. Your writing and speaking about the end of sex and why would we want to lead chance mother nature or two to work on the creation of children in the old-fashioned way babies are made and why not just take all babymaking into the laboratory and one professor temper has a new book out called the end of sex where he says that in effect will only be for fun and pleasure, and babymaking will be moved into the laboratory so very very troubling to be the kind of attitude than the fact that the technology there to do that based on the rapidly changing technology in this area. We all really only now just developing a track record and a better understanding of the longer-term effects of things like in vitro fertilization, egg and sperm donation and surrogacy on both the children and the families who were developed through these methods. What is the data telling us about the long-term effects of these technologies. Yeah that that again is another.

I wish I had good news, I like downer of the reality is still like you said, relatively new technology that data just coming out and all good data have to really have a large sample five where we trapping and we track and monitor and follow-up in over years. So were still not at that critical mass point you will have that the sample sizes and the really really long term data that is important to have but you know it's troubling what we are seeing we are seeing that these technologies are not without risk to women's health into the health and well-being of the children that are created this way, we are seeing that there is harm and risk if you will to egg donors, surrogate mothers were used, no paid whatever to help people have children, so the data so far is troubling to me and I do think as we follow these endeavors longer over time, and have a larger sample fight will see even more problems will surely matters that we should be concerned about and deftly continue to keep a you a very close on our own. Jennifer you you touched on this, but more and more all of the process of so-called making babies were quote making payments as being artificial will now hearing about doctors creating children with three or four biological parents in Santos working with stem cell technologies that they hope will allow them to actually grow artificial eggs and sperm laboratories to use for in vitro fertilization.

As you discussed talk about the potentially positive aspects and also the negative aspects or areas of concern that we should have regarding this artificial was a sin of making babies. Personally, I have a huge ethical moral problems with that final thing good that can come out of these technologies. Certainly, the intention is good intention is to be able to treat, alleviate, stop in a horrible genetic illnesses and there's been a number you would be against treating or curing disease, but again when it gets back to making life know we are by our own human hand or own well making human life by you know by our design that hugely problematically and we talk about the three parent embryo technology where you're exploiting a young, healthy woman for her eggs in order to provide the genetic material for the intended mother who has a defect defect under the child and patient on children, you know future children they can't even consent to that you have strong laws in the United States about how each advance scientific research and the use of research subjects human research subjects. How we protect their safety and there's always protection but here where we are doing research on a future person that cannot consent and this is experimentation on children parents because they're so desperate to have a child to have a child that doesn't have a particular type of genetic illness know are willing to allow this experimentation and there's huge safety problems.

We don't know what it's like to be a human being with DNA from three people know the beginning of time. We have the DNA from her mother and a father. Not that, now we will be creating a population of that will have the genetic material from three people and what does that mean and what will that look Look like and that thing you're listening to policy matters of resource to listen to our radio show online resources have a place of persuasion and community website.org well I'm so struck by the way conversations around technology are often couched in terms of the desires of the adults as opposed to the basic human rights of the children who are produced using these technologies. How do we balance the desires of adults to have children. For those that can't or are having difficulties with the rights and interests of the child.

Yes, well, you know, our work is very much focused in the educational side of things, which is likely to produce documentary films to get people to stop and think about what they are. Print perhaps doing in their desire their adulthood fire me wanting children and wanting a family just like the many millions of things that we want and desire is not sure the method and the means by which we go about you to get those things that we really want to release only long for so yeah I think if we educate people we can get people to stop and think all my cost is experimenting on a future child. We do not understand the safety of the issues and what little we do know we do know that there's problems in moving forward in this way and making a strong case for the rights of the child, not just the right to the needs of the desires of the adult doesn't a child have the right to not be created as part of the technological project. Still, begotten, not made know are we just going to be no concerned about our desire to make a child versus the child right not to be part of the project or social experiment or scientific experiment on Jennifer that really bugs the question should all elected officials and other policymakers involved themselves in what some would consider to be scientific matter, absolutely.

I mean, I do think so.

The problem is always getting your lawmakers to be educated because you have a lot of lawmakers to Lock on things that are outside of their pay grade or above their area of expertise. So how do we not only inform her citizen but how do we also inform our lawmakers so that when they are looking at perhaps passing laws to protect children, to protect the health and well-being of young healthy women on college campuses throughout the south array know that they are packing good loving the worst thing is know we have lawmakers are ill-informed and passed laws that you do do things that we would not want them to to so you know we have a huge educational battle and it uphill battle to get people to understand these new novel technologies will no doubt about that.

Discussing Jennifer what is the current legal status in the United States for the regulation of reproductive technologies and surrogacy and what are your recommendations to lawmakers who are considering laws in these areas. Yes, I'm in the sad reality is the United States. Like it or not or are not.

It really is a patchwork.

These matters are decided at the state level.

Wouldn't it be great if we had some really good federal policies that we cannot freeze human embryos and we cannot do human cloning research. We cannot pay women or their eggs like we have universal federal laws of repeat with A orchid but sadly the reality of these are at the state level, so you just will find a hodgepodge of blog, you know, our organization takes a strong position against all third-party conception. We don't think it should be a lot. We do not think federal law law should permit egg and sperm donation or surrogate pregnancy know we are very strong against human cloning and experimentation on human embryos and freezing of human embryos. So there there's plenty of laws that we could pass and implement good enough we could pass it will be really interesting to see with the new administration will there be a bioethics commission, like under George Bush. I like under cousin Obama know well the trumpet ministration form some kind of a bioethics commission that will advise and direct policy. So were were optimistic and hopeful and watching and seeing what might happen, but there's plenty of room for our lawmakers to act. It's just getting them to act in the direction in which we'd like them to swell on one of the issues that is been discussed. Some in the state legislature North Carolina but there's still a lot of confusion and misunderstanding about it is surrogacy talk a little bit as we close out our discussion for this week about surrogacy what is surrogacy and what concerns do you have about a woman essentially voluntarily carrying a baby to term for another couple who cannot physically cure their own baby yeah you right there pretty much defined surrogacy at the woman who volunteer volunteers are offered with compensation to do this. This deed carry a pregnancy with the whole notion that when the baby is born she will surrender it know you will you introduce me by talking about live.com pediatric nursing. I'm imagining many of your listeners are from the faith community and I knit you together in your mother's womb pediatric nurse.

We talk about maternal child health and the good of bonding and maternal child bonding happening before the baby is born in utero and there's no huge problem. I think we use another woman's body instrumentally digested a baby, there's problems to the baby, bonded and attached to that mother that will the baby will forever be separated from the whole contracting of the drawing up of contracts hugely problematic when you're talking about a new life. Not likely selling a house selling a car.

I'm offering you a job in the creation of a new life in the third party fourth party got me how many people could be involved.

So there's all kinds of ethical medical legal problem in turning conception into the contract will be very significant and important issues and and certainly as we said before things that we will be involved with them and certainly continue to keep very close tabs on Jennifer before we close out our discussion this week. I certainly want to give you an opportunity to let our listeners know where they can go for more about these topics and also your work at the Center for bioethics and culture. Yes. Well one is our website which is DVC – network.org and were also very active on Facebook.

The Center for bioethics and culture network on Facebook between our website and our Facebook page, you can probably find out anything you want to find out about it matters all concerning bioethics really what I wanted. I give that website again so that our listeners can make sure to avail themselves of that information in the gimmicks www.CBC – network.org again.

CBC – network.org and without Jennifer hello, thank you so much for joining us again on family policy matters and for your great work, staying on top of so many bioethics issues that are critically important and fundamental to the sanctity of human life. So were really grateful for your work on the cutting edge of this and appreciate your voice and your passion for. Thank you, my pleasure talking only to listen to our radio show online valuable resources and information about issues important to families in North Carolina website and see family.org and follow us on Twitter and Facebook