Carolina Journal Radio No. 797: Russian collusion with environmental groups deserves probe

From Cherokee to current attack from the largest city to the smallest and from the statehouse into the schoolhouse Carolina Journal radio your weekly news magazine discussing North Carolina's most public policy events and issues welcome to Carolina Journal radio why Muskoka during the next hour, Donna Martines and I will explore some major issues affecting our state. Small businesses often complain about problems created by government regulation, but you would see history professor reminds us that this attitude toward government is a relatively recent development. State lawmakers decided to scrap proposed captions for constitutional amendments on the November ballot. You learn why speaking of those amendments you'll learn why two of them have generated united opposition from all five living former North Carolina governors Democrat and Republican and will recap the current Gov.'s recent tour of communities hit hard by hurricane Matthew learn what some of the people living in those communities had to say to Gov. Roy Cooper. Those topics are just ahead. First, Donna Martinez joins us with the Carolina Journal headline are the Russians meddling in US and world energy markets well despite credible bipartisan concerns.

We really don't know for sure.

And we need to. That is the conclusion of the piece written@thehill.com by John lock foundation Senior fellow Don Vandermark.

Don used to be the secretary of North Carolina's Department of environmental quality before he joined the John Locke foundation in this piece written for the hill. He details the instances that lead to serious questions about Russian collision.

He also has some recommendations for the trump administration as well.welcome to Carolina Journal radio. So how and why are the Russians meddling in energy markets well the first thing we have to recognize is that natural gas is extremely important commodity for Russia more than 50% of their export revenues come from natural gas. So anytime the natural gas supplies change Russia's interest in course North America has experienced a revolution natural gas production over the last 10 years cracking due to hydraulic fracturing and that has significantly increased supply of natural gas and some of this is being considered for export to the same markets that Russia selling their natural gas into namely Europe, Eastern Europe. It sounds as if you're describing them competitive pressures and the Russians are taking notice exactly right and what what is what is remarkable is not that Russia is concerned about competitors anybody in business has those feelings. What is remarkable is that Russia is using.

According to Henry Clinton and others. Environmental groups to try to dissuade North Americans hydraulic fracturing efforts house. Well, the there are a number of different instances where protesters have been apparently funded by Russian groups to you to show up meetings that where the expansion of hydraulic fracturing is being discussed. One instance where second one who are: Clinton was Secretary of State she was speaking at a energy event where she also refer to phony his or her term phony environmental groups that are protesting for Perry. Whether it's a she said fracking or pipelines at the time the XL pipeline was still being held up. This is this is a concern to level Ist. While we have Russians apparently who are funding protests that affect our energy policy Americans energy policy, something that can be debated. But when we have undue influence being all are being funded by not our favorite nations that we should we should be concerned and recognize that the other issue which is one that I'm most concerned about. Also concerned about is the fact that this may the use of these environmental groups will cheapen and corrupt in the eyes of Americans. The value of these groups and, in fact, that very notion there is one of the reasons that you make a recommendation to the trump administration to look into this and it's curious because I'm sure our listeners know if you must've been living in a cave for the last year and there's been all sorts of media coverage speculation some facts and data coming out about whether or not Russia is involved in some way and it looks like the intelligences saying they were doing things them on the web, etc. involving the 2016 presidential election.

Get your point in this column that you wrote for the hill is that why is anyone similarly concerned about potential meddling collision. Whatever you want to call it in our energy markets exactly right. Nobody likes the idea of function meddling foreign entities not friendly to us meddling in our elections, but they should be very concerned about the meddling in our energy policy and and again you know from an environmental standpoint when I see the possibility that one or more of special-interest environmental groups that we have all look to and trusted may be being corrupted by serving as proxy for the Russians in this meddling that I want to clear the air. I want to make sure that we know who they are and we know who they are, so that going forward we can continue to rely on those that ever since Tagore have not taken part in this sort of corrupt sort of activity you mentioned that a former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton.

Her comments about this, but you also detailing your piece that them a key official NATO has made comments about this expressing concerns. Also there's a a House committee report that gets to this issue. Do environmental groups understand or have they discussed that there might be some compromising things going on here with their message. This is my question. Where are the environmental groups on the question of taking money from Russians that are one of the reports that you cited in in the paper details money going through offshore account back into some environmental groups here in America that may be innocent enough, but it's the same time, since its Russian money and since we have Hillary Clinton, claiming that Russians were finding some environmental groups. I'd like to know who was an and by doing that we find out what influence Russia really is having in our energy policy discussions. One would think that the environmental groups who spent decades really building their credibility. Their reputation would be concerned that they would want the air to be clear, this is you put a letter grade point.

If I were working for EDF and RDC naming a few. This will be very troublesome because as I point out, there have been reports on this is reported in the New York Times and Newsweek elsewhere. If I were a member of the public who is aware of this possibility.

I'm just left to speculate who is being corrupted and who is so if our said one of these environmental groups want to clear the air as well. What should happen now. Well, frankly, if there's not the kind of reporting that you referred to in the is is is is going on in election situation. I would walk the trump administration may be an interagency effort to look into it and it would also be in response to the concern shown by some of the representatives wrote letters refer to. You mentioned that there is a.m. house report that Dan referred to some of this does not mean that there are members of Congress who might be willing to perhaps push for some sort of investigatory body or effort. I would think so, Lamar Smith from Texas is one wrote a letter who participated in the study.

I would think he'd be very interested to know what's going on. Ultimately, Don. What's at stake carefully talk about time the US and the world energy market. Two things one is perhaps an corrupted influence on our energy policy proceeds, and the other is a loss of credibility of some of the very groups that have helped us establish new environmental policies going forward. It's a fascinating piece written by our guest Don Vandermark. He is a senior fellow with the John Locke foundation say with this much more Carolina general radio to come just government plays a key role in your life affecting your paycheck the way you educate your kids the way you do business. How can you tell if government is doing a good job making the right choices. Spending tax dollars wisely. Carolina journal.com tackles those questions every day. The John Locke foundation publishes Carolina journal in print each month and on the web each day@carolinajournal.com you'll find exclusive investigative reports on topics. No one else is covering what else a rundown of the best new stories, editorials and opinion columns in North Carolina.

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You can find the information you need@carolinajournal.com welcome back to Carolina journal radio I Michiko got asked a small business owner today about the biggest obstacles he faces, and you might hear them talk about government rules and regulations, but hasn't always been the case for those running small businesses.

Our next guest says in the past, not even the really distant past, many small business owners saw government as an ally, Dr. Benjamin Waterhouse is associate professor of history at UNC Chapel Hill.

He is author of the land of enterprise a business history of the United States and lobbying America, the politics of business from Nixon to NAFTA. Thanks for joining us here so you recently spoke to the John Locke foundation just for society about small business and American politics in the 20th century and he titled the lecture populist paradox. Why so will be the talk I gave springs from a research project I'm doing about the history of small business and particularly its role in American politics, culture and life in the 20th century. In particular, in the late 20th century. The paradox that I was reporting to is that in today's political environment.

Really, the political environment that we've seen for the last several decades, the general position of small business owners, as you said is been driven anti-governments are anti-regulatory antitax session. Whether or not a positive or small business is certainly something we could debate but certainly the loudest voices and mouthpieces of the small business community have aligned themselves with that set of politics and is frequently couched in somewhat populist language of the little guy versus the big guy now classically across American history that dynamic that small versus big has often operated within within the business coming here within sort of the capitalist structure as a an opposition toward entrenched economic power or size of large companies and so talk I gave, really, look back at the origins of small business identity and focused on the fact that in the early days of service small business identity that is to say, in the early days of when there was big business, small businesses, saw themselves primarily in competition with large corporate interests, large monopolies and so forth and they turned to the government through our tax policy through antitrust policy and other types of government policies to be a jewelry dress the kind of imbalances are the competitive challenges they faced in effect when they saw themselves politically. They typically aligned against big business and and saw themselves allied with the government of the paradox identifies what happens. By the late 20th century when that seems to go away, we retain the populist language that's her sense of the little versus the big but the big has now shifted from from being the business to being the government that is Dr. Benjamin Waterhouse associate Prof. of history at UNC Chapel Hill, so those who see government and small businesses as natural antagonists on a look back at the history a little bit to see that this has always been the case. Particularly, I think that's right. And when the question comes to you. How do you maintain a small economic enterprise in a environment of free competition and the irony here that the challenges that the conditions of free competition frequently allow those who outcompete to grow to expand and to then use the power they create, to continue to grow and expand. And so in fact this for free competition creates the environment in which you can extinguish itself, and if the concern is to perpetuate the small, the local and the for more personal things we associate with small business in the past, particularly in the early part of the 20th century and early through the 1930s or so. The focus was on on on using the law on using the power of the state to restrict size restricted mergers and acquisitions and integration of the largest levels and to to actively promote the small businesses you have a sense at this point in your research about why there's been such a major change in our political level. The Christ, the economic crisis years of the sort of's last third of the 20th century hierarchy as of the 1970s, the rapid growth economic growth experienced in the post-World War II years came to a halt. There is this the period of inflation.

Economic stagnation energy crisis, and so forth, where these are expectations of of rising tides lifting all boats seems to come up short in this coincides with a particular movement really spearheaded by elite and successful economic interests, big businesses to serve limit or to try to push back against anything that was perceived to be limiting their economic growth so that the general business response to the end of the growth economy was to redirect their policy attention against regulation, labor unions, and tax policy and things like that that on a certain level attracted many small business owners and is a set it's particular the people who speak on behalf of the small business community as opposed to everyone who owns a small business but a lot of the organizing around small business that blossoms in the 1970s and 1980s, organizations like the US Chamber of Commerce always seem to be on the side of Main Street but they had really in the mid 20th century business-oriented group they start to turn the focus of the national Federation of Independent business was created in the 1940s as a fairly localized survey oriented group, they become extremely active in political lobbying, the 1980s and they all sort of coalesce around a common economically conservative view of policy that that dovetails very well with the interests of the larger firms as well.

Does the change from your vantage point have to do with the way government has changed. I think that's part of it is a set the big debate among historians of the 20th century is really what's what with the prime movers are one way to tell the story is that that the state itself grew and it's in is reaching its focus in the types of gender types of positions it was trying to promote from the progress. To the new deal.

And then through the 1960s and that much of what we've seen since then has been a sort of pushback against those types of economic policies.

I think a complementary way to kind of conceive of the 20th century does really have to do with the challenges of economic growth. Since the early 1970s and the broad sort of stagnation or slowdown in productivity increases and so forth and so as a result of those which are one of the stories we want out of it hereto. You have a different role for the government particular the federal government in economic life in the remaining time that we have.

This is all interesting.

Historically, ethics of people listening to us will say what does this mean for the future. What could be the attitude of business, especially small business or government, the future well I think this is this is the open question is, it is still the case, and in fact I think it's been consistently the case for the last 30 years that large economic institutions, large corporations continue to grow.

They continue to exercise greater competitive advantage over small efforts and we see this in a variety of spaces from retail and bookselling to the text to. Certainly the old classical titans of the old industrial economies from automotive to resource extraction petroleum oil. Things like that night.

He doesn't seem to me that there's much chance of of a turnaround and it seems that that's that sort of the direction that things are going. The small local mom-and-pop type stores are under a lot of pressure they're under a lot of strain that is the voice Dr. Benjamin Waterhouse associate Prof. of history at Chapel Hill thinks about doing more on Carolina journal radio just if you love freedom we got great news to share with you now. You can find the latest news, views, and research from conservative groups across North Carolina all in one place North Carolina conservative.com.

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So now not only will you enjoy what you buy will also support freedom. Don't forget log on to smile.amazon.com today by something nice and help defend freedom. Support the John Locke foundation. Welcome back to Carolina journal radio why Michiko got North Carolina voters head to the polls in November. They'll see six items labeled simply as constitutional amendment. Lawmakers voted for that generic label rather than give a three-member commission. The task of developing captions for the amendments jogging down here on an outside group doing your job for you.

We don't all these past years the body and control have written their own amendments.

This is a cost-efficient prerogative that you have. We don't need any other group other than this very body here in the one across the hall over there right amendments. We don't need captions written we don't need that follows and we don't want that we want to do our job and our job is to write the question out on the constitutional amendment and give the public a task yes or no.

That's what were doing is restoring common sense that's Republican Sen. Jerry Tillman, Democrat Floyd McKissick disagree. I think we should be very honest and candid, zero. The makeup of this commission had two Republicans and one Democrat we wouldn't be here. We would be debating this. Perhaps Newton had become Atty. Gen. and we still have Paul Coble here, we wouldn't be here.

We would be debating this is all political, just like all six of the amendments there driven specifically to help bring out the Republican base, and I think it really is trying to disguise things in a way that assumes that either members of this chamber are na�ve that the public is na�ve to suggest otherwise.

Senate Republican leader Harry Brown responded person panel had never gotten political until recently, and if you want to talk about politics being thrown into something never before. Do we have to worry about this issue and you want to talk about who started the political side of this issue is that three were talking about when I started leaking out how they wanted to change the wording on the ballot for these constitutional amendments different than what we passed as legislators is political. This process, I say they'll that's what caused us to come back and have to do what were doing today is unfortunate because it was never intended for that happened happened and I were up before I think the public is tomorrow and I think the public can read these amendments and make their own decisions and I think that's important that the people of this state. If you choose if they want. These memos are not how you can be any fair to the public and have the people decide if I don't like the second boat you been listening to debate about labels for six constitutional amendments on the ballot in North Carolina this fall will return with more Carolina journal radio in a moment where doubling down on freedom at Carolina journal radio were proud to bring you stories that impact your life and your wallet. And now get twice as much freedom when you also listen to our podcast headlock available on iTunes and@johnlocke.org/podcast headlock is a little bit different. It's a no holds barred discussion that challenge its softheaded ideas from the left and the right, like Carolina journal radio headlock is smart and timely but with headlock you'll hear more about the culture wars get some more humor as well. We guarantee great information and a good time � that's listen to Carolina journal radio each week and listen to headlock to remember, you can listen to head back@johnlocke.org/podcast or subscriber download each week iTunes Carolina journal radio and headlock just what you need to stay informed and stay entertained both brought to you in the name of freedom by the John Locke foundation will Qu�bec Carolina journal radio why Michiko got every living North Carolina Gov. opposes two proposed state constitutional amendments one would change the way the state fills judicial vacancies. The other would change rules for appointments to state boards the governor's sake. Both abutments would take power away from the governor's office Republican Jim Martin recently joined the other living former governors for a news conference in the state capital here will not celebrate our love. We are here for a higher purpose. Our part to protect the constitutional authority and the office of Gov. of North Carolina State's chief executive, who alone is charged by the North Carolina Constitution take care that the laws be faithfully executed by Gen. assembly has chosen to submit photos to proposed constitutional amendments that we believe would seriously undermine the donor's ability to carry out that fundamental responsibility.

One of these amendments would take from the government to the legislature all Fargo to appoint thousands of hundreds of boards and commissions that have vital administrative responsibilities would impair the government's ability to appoint judges to fill vacancies on our court by restricting his or her choice only to those who would be selected bipartisan vote of the Gen. assembly. How's that for separation of powers is this fundamental and revered civic protection spelled out by the founders in both the national and state constitutions is also under assault Democrat Jim Hunt waited on the amendments. This effort that we strong bipartisan basis is against a few politicians and the legislature increasing their power's of the people of the state of North Carolina is bad thing people of North Carolina. When people vote for the governor all future all it's easy to talk about all these terms all these ideas and therefore but it's really about whether or not a few politicians in the will increase their power at the expense of the people of North Carolina listening to former North Carolina governors speaking against two proposed constitutional amendments Democrat Mike Easley noted the former governors bipartisan agreement. Never have gotten together and stuck it to you on the same issue so you can believe we and what we're saying to the checks and balances. Also, as our founding fathers pointed out and made certain that we follow throughout, so we didn't North Carolina. I think it's important to understand that the power of the executive is in those boards in those commissions and you can't do your job if you don't have access to those commissions. Those boards and they respond to reports. My concern overriding concern in all this is not about legislature this year or any other officer. Overriding concern is about the and if these amendments were to one lawsuit after the and it would go a long time. You would not have people concerned the board you would not confirm commissions as soon as one person was nominated and confirmed the other person follow lawsuit and would get tied up in the courts so far. Not all the souls of those who suffer. Democrat Bev Perdue reminded listeners that the issue revolves around more than just who controls government gets done in Raleigh or anywhere in the country is not about how it's not for speaker of the product, it's about everything that goes on here should be open to make our lives. Now that I'm a regular citizen any better doesn't help my family, my children, not all about making me think Bushong scare me.

These amendments anything stop us. We've never been nine stay in the legislature doesn't care about the people of North Carolina & they care about who has the power and he can do whatever needs to be done to control solid Republican Pat McClory explained why he returned to the old Statehouse chamber where he took his initial oath of office a return continue to protect the Constitution of the United States. This is not my first governor earthly had to take her legislature all the way to the North Carolina Supreme Court to find another script for executive branch like duties and responsibilities with the help of Cory versus Berger court near unanimous decision governor and future governors from legislative overreach. Now I'm proud to join governors continuing despite my advice. The hard-working legislators if any of you want to take on the responsibilities of the government then have the Kurds to run for governor, Constitution, especially through to deceitful and misleading amendments that will be on the ballot. The Republican Martin distinguish the governor's message from partisan bickering realistic to say this is a partisan fight between Republicans and Democrats. This works it's legislators versus government father was here before you ever living former government Democrats and problems together on this opposition.

This Republican majority today not only tried to seize executive authority from Democrat just a few years ago. You may remember I were doing the same telephone before that we had grabs John most legislative bodies, and guess what, they not only tried to stop this Republican and hold thousand four, it was to strip us of the appointments they did the same when I go you see this is not about partisan politics is about power politics must be stopped. That's Jim Martin, one of five former North Carolina governors, Republican and Democrat speaking out against two proposed constitutional amendments will return with more Carolina journal radio in a moment a commitment to truth and transparency in government.

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The award-winning Carolina journal team I reporters make government accountable to you. Call 1866 JL FINF0 for your free subscription, welcome back to Carolina journal radio I'm Donna Martinez in October 2016 hurricane Matthew wreaked havoc on Eastern North Carolina. And yet nearly 2 years later questions swirl around the state governments response when it comes to restoring the homes in the lives of those folks who were affected and when early August governor Roy Cooper traveled to the impacted area, Carolina journal associate editor Lindsay Marcello was on that trip. She joins us now. Lindsay left back to the show remind us of when and where it hit and what the. The overall impact was so the storm hit nearly 2 years ago in October on Eastern, Carolina was in Bertie County and Columbus County. Robinson encumbered Cumberland Delta significant amount of damage. I think North Carolina emergency management estimated that there was at least 4.8 billion in damages done to property, incredible, and there were some people killed and 31 people lives were lost. You talk to one of the victims of hurricane Matthew when you accompanied the governor on this trip tell us about that conversation I met with a man named Benjamin Phillips. He lives in Lumberton and he slept in his house for over 40 years and he was heavily impacted by the storm. He lost the roof of his house is damaged. The carpets were also the wallpaper was peeling down and in your tears. It's only now starting to get repaired through the clean development block grants Robinson County as the first county tax to be able to access these grants as they completed their environmental impact study several other other counties have yet to be able to access these have finished their environmental study or in their still waiting for the federal government to prove them now Lindsay what you just said may surprise some of our listeners because I think an average person would say hey, wait a second it's been almost 2 years and what if people been doing, where they been living what happened to their lives over the two years a lot of people have either been moved in with family. They found hotels they plugged in FEMA trailers they've not been able in their houses because of mold, mildew, lack of power etc. there has been a deliver to these counties but it's not enough to impact at 4.8 billion have millions in state and federal funds. I think it emergency management estimates that there is over 700 million on the ground right now.

but there still 236 million wrapped up behind bureaucratic red tape with the community development block grants. that is just stunning to hear that. it sounds to me like from your reports. the issue is not a lack of federal or state recovery funding. it's just trying to get it to people the money is there.

it's just that it's locked up behind holly's eight step process that people have to do that make multiple trips to application centers and they can even do that until an environmental impact study is done in the city take long time and then you have to wait for the housing and urban development agency federal government to approve those if they don't prevent get to do it again since clock back boy. for those of us who are interested in efficient limited government that that's the classic nightmare of what happens what is governor cooper say about all this, he says, and be patient or working hard working to get the money out to you, but he can't give us a timeline for when those monies are to be released. for instance, columbus county was one of the hardest hit counties in fair bluff is a small town most of its source are still boarded up and they have yet to see anything from the community development block grants lindsay, is there something different about the process to get funding from the feds or from the state actually to the people who need it or something different this time around because i'm trying to recall any type of delay like this when previous disasters of hit is this program was originally implemented by the department of commerce, but i think prior to hurricane. matthew and i think it was in 2016.

the general assembly transfer that to the north carolina emergency management which said that they could implement this program. part of the problem now is that hud only deals with the department of commerce.

they want to deal with for county emergency management until they reworked and remade the program from the ground up. so a lot of that link reworking that's taken a lot of time to get done such that a lot of the delays. what about the general assembly then if part of this is as you described, with a change in procedure. what we hear from state legislators about what's happening there frustrated they they want to see these funds being released sooner. they want to see people getting help center. they passed the disaster relief act soon after the disaster. they were able to get number the exact number but it was in the millions money out to these communities that were impacted but it's still just not enough to set up the house select committee on disaster relief and they've been looking into how do we streamline this process that is more efficient and it gets people faster while still balancing accountability. make sure that there's no fraud in this disaster relief, any progress in that area. they come up with any ideas that everyone can agree upon the meantime, of course, there are people who are waiting right. i think they have really established the committee after the short session. the speaker to more he came back and said okay we need to keep looking at this level reinstate the committee to figure what we can do by i think they're at a loss of how you speed up this process when the step states that program that set by the federal government so that change needs come from higher up to six not only we can do that. the higher the federal government needs to help us with two do we know if the governor's office. for example, has contacted the trump administration to say hey we got a real problem down here in north carolina asked for funding is asked more and more funny. but that doesn't seem to be the problem is the access to funding.

it's just getting being able to get that money out to communities, i'm not aware of whether or not cooper has come out and said hey this program is taking too long. it is too hard for people to finish it in a timely fashion, i'm unaware of whether or not he is come out and say that what the local saying about all this sound because they're living right in the middle of it for them. it is a daily story.

it's not just something that gets reported on now and then there there frustrated. there trying to be patient, but it's hard to be patient when you're houses was basically destroyed. dave enabled to turn to the local communities to nonprofits to other financial sources for disaster relief. their small business association loans. there is the hazard mitigation grants that i believe that's a minister by fema part of the problem again is that sometimes people are not able to be qualified for this program's and the shut out and they don't know what they can do to cooper elyse.

he has said that being people need to call the number 211 to see what kind of funding that they are eligible for what was the interaction like between gov. cooper and the folks that he was in a meeting with happy ending for him to be out there.

it's probably great thing for them to be up to see him face-to-face people to talk to him.

think would be beneficial if he did this more often went down to talk to people face-to-face and so they're not dealing with this faceless bureaucratic government. but once again there and they're tired there for relief, and it's been a long time coming and you were there talking to some of the folks affected you mentioned down what benjamin phillips had mentioned to you in his situation. help us understand a little bit more about what you saw. so with his house and mean the roof had been destroyed.

he recently had it re-shingled using that community development block grant funding is carpet is still nasty for lack of a better word. it's i have asthma. i would not be able to live in the house. it's too must email daily, but he's been staying there holding out but there still needs a lot of work done. wallpaper needs to be repaired. sounds like he's an example of what's happening in that community yet they were sure the funds in bottom line on your story seems to be the funding is there, it's just the bureaucratic process that is delaying getting it to the people who really need it. thank you, thank you for having the time we have for the program this week. thank you for listening on behalf of my cohost mitch. okay i'm donna martinez hope you'll join us again next week for another edition carolina general radio carolina general radio is a program of the job. learn more about the john locke foundation donations support programs carolina general radio send email to development john locke call 66j lf 166-553-4636 journal radio foundation airline is maintained. carolina running all opinions expressed on this program nearly mentioned about michelle or other programs foundation 31 airline sponsored carolina radio again