Bill Cosby Case and Venomous Snake Case and More!

Is now think about him and you don't, your thou will and now outlaw lawyer with Josh Whitaker welcome to this week's the outlaw lawyer I am your one of your host, your cohost Josh Whitaker with me. As always, is Joseph Hamer we are attorneys at Whitaker and Hamer law firm has offices in Raleigh, Clayton Garner, Goldsboro and Fuquay Marina. We are here today not artificial, attorney, lawyer roles, but we here today to talk about news legal news that we won't see you.

We want to address and, and, take a look at as attorneys or Joe have you been just have been doing fantastic. I look forward to being in here with you every single week and it just seems to get better every single week spending this time with you here and from our listeners, no answer listener questions and just get to talk about the law man.

What is important you know we we we this is our one hour lead that we have week we can reach out to our listeners and if you're listening for the first time Harold outlaw lawyer what our goal is is is to take these legal news items Supreme Court case Court of Appeals case things in the news that her legal have to do with statutes and got a look at them from an attorneys perspective look at the primary documents look at the statutes look at the legal opinions can I go behind the scenes.

I know a lot of these media outlets when they present legal news is not an attorney is presenting these you know it seems like now.

There's always a lot to look at and I think the little unit one to paragraph treatment are in 1/32 story on on the major network news networks miss a lot of stuff as last Joe Joe Joe for the folks who may be listening for the first time, as is a little bit younger than me, but I was going asked Joe if he knew there was a time when the national news was 30 minutes long every day, 30 minutes, the news is I got Joshua telling me there was a time when there weren't multiple 24 hour a day, news channels on you that we used to get back from school or work, and you watch 30 minutes local news you watch 30 mass national news. You have a newspaper allow that same information was and that was it. So now you got CNN and Fox news, New York Times, Wall Street Journal, your local news outlet.

She got aggregators like the Drudge Report that can pull different AP stories and things together and I don't know if we would all agree anymore what news really even is like, we can agree to what the top stories of the day are between.

If you look at all these outlets yeah you know I'm younger than you do recall the times that you referring to, but it but I think that that that 24 hour news cycle just really stretches the definition of what's newsworthy. So you not only do we see political viewpoints, shaping and molding the narrative but just the need to push out sheer content to feel that 24 hour cycle really kind of redefines and has redefined what the average person even considered newsworthy at this point and how do you really argue that it's impacting society and that's why one of our primary goals here at the outlaw lawyer is to look at everything with no political bias. No political slant from the neutral perspective of the law.

I try to take these items that we we plucked from the news and look at him like they came in my office later, in my office in the console. I don't have any size I was looking at the facts and saying this is that this is okay, or this is not okay this is a good lawsuit. This is a bad lawsuit a good statute about statute. You know so you just point out you forget your news. You know I got a lot of got a lot of contacts and they get all their news from the other watch CNN or Dell watch Fox News and they're not you know that they're not reading any kind a newspaper. But if you get your news from one source and you almost have to be some is like a part-time job to really get enough coverage where you can put in eight you could put the CNN article in the Fox news article in the New York Times article to get you may get a stimulus small amount of facts that are there and you may be able to use that actually figure out what really happened and figure out why it's lights news but that's back in my NC state days is what they used to tell me you know it's the 5W's, the why, when, where, how you know at what actually happened here. Let's let the person reading let the person listening give them actual facts and let them figure out if it's newsworthy earth that you know what side they would would take, but yes not really the way it is now it's it's different. It's almost become a skill to discern and and you really have to actively try to seek out the truth and a lot of people just, you know, like you said that they get from one place they just they they take it at face value and there's a lot of just disinformation misinformation out there. That's why recommend our viewers and listeners rather get their news only from here is one hour a week to an end Saturday for all of your and we may only cover for five topics with the that's what's important in your life really really really try to approach this just yet. We go out of our way to try to be reasonable and objective and I think when you do that you know good things good things happening, you can have political leanings and you can have issues that are important to you, but you just try. We try to look at things like the average with tarp, the average reasonable person is another legal term that comes up at it. In that same vein today. We got a couple things we want to tackle and so I think the biggest thing we want to tackle is is what's going on with Bill Cosby was going on with Bill Cosby were to talk all things Bill Cosby were in a talk is rise really talk is fall and just talk. The recent developments with Cosby recently being released from incarceration is the whirlwind of the story involving Bill Cosby and so after we take that deep dive into Bill Cosby's trial in his recent release were in a jumpsuit is a big story.

You might've heard about it. There was a was a zebra spitting zebra cobra that was loose in North Raleigh spitting zebra cobra. One of my top five species of cobra. Yes, that is, that is correct right so that that gripped Raleigh for a little bit and sewed like anything in the news you have the news covered it because people want to see. I think I saw one time I clicked in the lifestream there's like 3000 people watching animal control corner this viper on his guys porch and there's people that wanted to see that. Will you North Carolina action has a statute on what governs how you can keep the mistakes and what you can do is over and take a look at the statute legal information behind the new story. I think we can all agree that was news local news lease.

I think that was definitely news it was relevant.

I cared to know that it was a snake on the loose, were also to talk a little bit about sperm working to talk about whether a sperm donor can actually owe child support for their child. That is grown from seed. So that's that's actually a topic when a color cover as well talk about some estate horror stories.

We mentioned that a lot and I were in the cover that a little more detail and talk about what can go wrong and why you always need to consult with a licensed North Carolina attorney. This seems like a good time to remind you that Joseph and I and many of our guests are licensed attorneys who are licensed to practice in in North Carolina they do not appear. We do not appear on the show to give you any personal legal advice. We hear just generally to talk about legal news.

If you do need legal advice. We are attorneys Whitaker and Hamer. So if you need to get a hold of us at the outlaw lawyer with any questions or concerns or you need to meet to consult with an attorney at our firm. You can call us at 1-800-659-1186 is 1-800-659-1186 that is a number that set up for you to leave a message which will come directly to us and if you need an attorney. We can certainly reach out to you to set that up.

Set up a consultation. But if you have any questions or concerns for anything that we talked about on the show. You can also leave it there and will get it if emails better. Our email addresses questions that's plural questions@theoutlawlawyer.com and again that these important our website is the outlaw lawyer.com all of our past episodes are there.

There's another you know which it there that can get you in contact with us and on Facebook and Twitter where the outlaw lawyer, the outlaw lawyer. I don't know who the regular nine the outlaw lawyer is that we are the outlaw lawyer were coming for you. Regular outlaw lawyer without of the I would also like to mention for those of you who may live down near the corner Clayton South Raleigh Fuquay area.

The law firm of Whitaker and Hamer is sponsoring a beer pong tournament is a normal thing that law firms do I hear yes frequently, but you can how you can reject us that something you want to take part in is always a lot of fun but that'll be down in the in the Garner South Raleigh area metal bar called Shadyside if you're interested in beer pong and I'm certain everyone of our listeners are added beer pong players.

You can reach out to us that way to otherwise really going to take a break, get ready for a deep dive into Mr. Bill Cosby coming up on the outlaw lawyer. We will talk all the legal details of Bill Cosby's legal woes in recent release from prison. Cosby I was a is big new story so everybody you know really I guess of a certain age knows who Bill Cosby is hard not to know Bill Cosby was in his legal troubles, mounted on him there in the in the mid to late 2000's and he was sentenced to prison will talk about all this but he was recently released, so the Court of Appeals and in in Pennsylvania heard his case and now he's a completely free man.

All of a sudden he's a free man. That's right, you know, we talk about shocking allegations and you know celebrities who have kind of fallen from grace is really few that can compete with the story of Bill Cosby and you know it's funny you mentioned when we all think of Bill Cosby. I was a house asking some of our younger employees at the law firm of Whitaker and Hamer just about Bill Cosby in preparation for that and it's amazing when you hit a certain point how those opinions change in and how the younger generation doesn't know them as anything other than essentially a convicted sex offender, which is note crazy thinking of where he came from. Yes, a bill you know Bill Cosby. I think most of our listeners are probably of age or we don't have to to tell them who Bill Cosby was but I thing is hard to understate how popular Bill Cosby was for much of the 70s 80s 90s you I think a lot of people refer to them as a as America's dad you know we grew up with the Cosby show and Ivan II watch Cosby Cosby. Yes, I watch the that what is like three or four's of years later, the Cosby show is done so they brought their broad-minded Cosby I see I see I know the Cosby show overwhelmingly popular. Having us all 30 million viewers on average for that show which is just a ridiculous number and you know got syndicated was around for a long time, several years after was canceled, you'd still see episodes in just a guy really permeated all of of pop culture exceedingly popular.

Like you said a lot of affectionately referred to by many as America's dad just really was a generally well thought out wholesome figure did the show kit say the darndest things and I really had the Sterling kind of image in the in the public after my grandmother loved Bill Cosby fan.

I remember I remember in the mid-2000… All come know I had some standup comedians think maybe Hannibal Burris was a stain of comedian who, like me, there were rumblings in Hollywood. Some of the things that were in and talk about like they were.

They were things that were known, they just weren't known publicly and that was actually one of the main things that actually shed some light on it was Hannibal Burris. Like you said just I think within the cut in the community of comedians like you said, rumblings and end there was some talk about it, but it wasn't really until 2005 when no more concrete allegations. Canada started to come to light. The first the first allegations that kinda led to two Cosby's fall from grace or from Audrey Konstantin and she was an individual who had brought these charges up again around 2005 after her. I thing coming around 50 more women accused Cosby of some sort of sexual assault or or flat out rape whatever statue limitation issues because these ally. This class was too old and statute of limitations for folks or statute of limitations for almost any kind of claim any kind of case, criminal, civil, there's a certain amount of time that's passed where the court has said hey it's too old. You know we can't get good evidence. Witnesses recollections. All have been harmed. This is too old to pursue this is too old to be a claim for relief and so the statute of limitations cut a lot of these off, yes, so you know it to talk about the case and how where we are now in that the recent developments I think you really have to start back windows allegations first started coming to light. So if you kept up with the news around that time you remember those a lot of smoke like you said it once those first rumors started coming out. It kinda became a running saying where you would just continually hear about more more people and in like you said Josh.

Over 50 women. I believe independently accused Cosby of some form of sexual assault and every story was essentially a variation of the same story which was basically in essence that Cosby would would have these women over, he would give them some sort of pillar drug and they would eventually pass out and wake up, having been sexually assaulted, as are certainly disturbing allegations and then they all deserve to be taking taken seriously and and so that's what that's what happened here and so under is artistry say Mrs. Konstantin direct Konstantin can't stand I'm terrible at pronouncing even the most common names like I just have this. I have have a disability were even like Johnson can throw me like in the wrong side thing that's it formal disability. It will give me that Mrs. Kohn stand brings her charges to bring those to light and I was only first name like Joe the district attorney in Philadelphia were these events were said to have occurred. Didn't ever file charges yeah will will get to that. So you know that's the interesting thing is is these allegations are made by Kohn stand and several other women but can't stand. She was the one person who's allegations were recent enough to wear that statue limitations was in a bar to criminal prosecution and she also brought a civil case, which will also talk about as well, but ultimately achieve these charges are brought. Cosby ends up being convicted on three felony counts of aggravated indecent assault and he is sentenced to 3 to 10 years in state prison. So his defense team.

After the conviction conviction they file an appeal and their argument is basically that the Montgomery County district attorney, who is Mr. Bruce Castor had agreed not to file criminal charges if Cosby provided a sworn deposition in a civil case that constant had filed prior to the criminal case being brought right so we have an agreement. We have an acting district attorney has agreed not to bring charges based on these facts, in exchange for Cosby pretty much cooperating with Kohn stand civil lawsuit exactly exactly. And so, so Cosby does so Cosby has this free pass basically from the DA saying it you can be truthful and so in these civil depositions. Cosby did admit to furnishing drugs Quaaludes to women and admitted to be sexually involved with Kohn stand so he did not plead this is this is civil so he didn't plead the fifth because he was, he had this free pardon to talk about the stuff exactly nothing about that the Cosby allegations.

Is he never really came out and outright denied sexual activity with these women, so his defense wasn't and I never buy never met and I'm sure for some of the women he be never met or never remembered, but generally speaking, if I remember correctly, his defense was always Everywoman that this happen with did they participated knowingly, willingly, with consent they knew they were taking the drugs they were taking.

They knew what to do. Essentially they knew what was gonna happen and we made not find that a strong defense, but that is what his argument was is that they this wasn't something he sprung on him. He was he was explaining this to Everywoman.

He did it with and they all were like units, they consented to it. Essentially, so again Cosby ultimately convicted of drugging and sexually assaulting Kohn stand that conviction is upheld by the lower court in 2019, and as a result, Cosby's lawyers appeal at the state level and they argue that the DA casters agreement with Cosby basically precluded him from being able to invoke his Fifth Amendment rights against self-incrimination during those depositions. And when you put that together with some bad act. Witnesses that that were included in the second trial which will discuss in more detail as well. That was the grounds.

They argue for overturning that verdict. And so it was those depositions. The civil depositions were Cosby felt they could speak freely about drugs and and women back in 2005 that was used as a part of a victim of the prosecution's case that his first trial, which ended in a hung jury and a second trial.

They ultimately convicted them of three felonies, but because the first DA because Mr. Castor removed the threat of criminal prosecution if Cosby agreed to making the deposition, the comedian's attorney successfully established a Cosby was able to invoke is for commitment privilege against self-incrimination, and I was therefore unable to defend himself against criminal charges. Yeah so that the Pennsylvania Supreme Court ultimately when presented with this argument from Cosby's lawyers. They ruled that that 2019 felony conviction was to be overturned and they cited that agreement by the DA to not prosecute Cosby as did the primary reason basically saying that because that agreement, he should have never actually stood trial in first place and another factor in the court's decision. We talked about it a little bit was these so-called bad act witnesses in the second trial and his attorneys also successfully argued that those witnesses unfairly prejudice the jury.

So the court ultimately again agreed with Cosby's legal team and they you know basically said that they were throwing this out completely. At no time Cosby's lawyers would argue did the comedian expect that his sworn testimony in the civil case whenever see the light of day, let alone be used in criminal court as the primary basis for his conviction. This is a lot to take in Joe. I think this is a good time for us to do a quick commercial break and it will come back and get more information and can take it from there. The next we have a special guest and we continue our discussion on Mr. Bill has come back to that will lawyer Joseph and I are still here were still diving deep into what it means Bill Cosby's release, how it came about why it's important and fortunately we just got a call we got a special guest in here so if you listen to our first episode you remember Mr. Damon McCullers, an attorney here in Raleigh, North Carolina in my former law partner, welcome Damien hello hello everybody sent doing good, doing good, glad to have you got divorce.

This is this is I practice me and Joe practiced with Damien for 17 years and so he stays to be McCullers, Whitaker and Hamer announce Whitaker and Hamer, but Damien is a good friend of ours good friend of the show good friend of the outlaw lawyer essays joined us to talk about Bill Cosby, Joe.

We spent a lot of time talking about the charges the conviction and how we got there what the problem was, what is this all mean fantastic question Josh that the Supreme Court of Pennsylvania. They reverse Cosby's conviction and they allowed him to basically leave prison as a free man. He's no longer required to file as a sexually violent predator on the sex offender registry and suggest one month after he was actually denied parole for refusing to attend prison workshops for sex offenders. He's just walking free.

Now, essentially, so now I ask you a question. Josh Nate we know Cosby's been released but with the allegations coming out in 2005.

Why did the DA did not initially prosecute Cosby in the first place. While they wait so long to do so why think Castor went on record to to and he basically said that you know he made the decision not to prosecute Cosby criminally because of what he called.

I guess just defects in the case. So he noted that Konstantin waited to come forward with her allegations. For a while he was concerned there was enough evidence to convict.

Basically Konstantin's delay in reporting is diminished. The reliability of any recollections and undermine the investigator's efforts to collect forensic evidence so they had no forensic evidence they had no witnesses and he also found numerous inconsistencies with con Stan statements to him and law enforcement. Damien here you remember when all this was happening. I do think your point about what the DA actually said is important is also a great opportunity to take this a no any victim of any type of assault, sexual assault, that type of thing is difficult for them to come forward. We certainly want to make sure they understand that we and I support in coming forward and we are here strictly talk about the law and just cut out this all played out and that those comments are those of the DA that was hard to that case and what he thought the legal conclusions would be based off of what he had been gifted but that's that, that part in a nutshell, and you know as a prosecutor. That prosecutor has to and I don't use the word value because it sounds bad.I think they have to evaluate their case and in what they think would be the good and the bad points of their case it sounds like this prosecutor decided that there were a number of weak points in the case and evaluate it and decided not to move forward. What a name he makes a good point is one that we we made a law earlier today to you but when you're were all practicing attorney so this is this is work for us. You know we did our feelings involve there's victims. You know you you always you always have remorse but though the longer that you do this you. It almost comes like a watch a football game. If your football coach you know you your you were basically looking at what attorneys did based on facts and in criticizing her car commenting are you looking or looking at it you know were looking at it without feeling, without without emotion because that's what you're supposed to do in court right in the next year, like in law school. When you stand up your first year you say what I think and then your professor says I don't really care what you think.

What is the law say right and that's an answer.

That's a big thing here and you know what part of I know what me and Jill were working to get to is is you have had the meat to move men and, what was going on around this time and and and this to me Joe even at the time I had to get to and I didn't get too involved in that time, but it seemed odd to me that this decision came down to unseal the the depositions that we been talking about. Yeah.

And I guess that's the that's really where the defects is that it is what ultimately led to Cosby's release. So we talked about Castor and again basically just reporting his own findings and in his own assessment of Constanza reliability, but at end of the day.

He essentially just said there is not sufficient credible evidence to prove Cosby's guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. And that's that.

That was what his position was as far as not prosecuting at the time, and then again he makes this civil cases ultimately brought. He makes the agreement with Cosby to solicit his testimony or his deposition rather and basically says you were knocking prosecute based on this and and that's again, how we get here one and I would imagine I would imagine that time. It's not like Castor did that on his own. I'm sure he was approached by I would think Constanza Turney Cosby's attorney, saying it would get the civil thing we need Cosby to play along. This agreement was reached. I'm sure between several parties is not just that Castro and his own free volition. Just decide to do this would be my guess. I don't know Damien if you see that happen a lot, but that Doug, my guess is that this was to help everybody at the time it was to help everybody at the time but I can tell you is this kind of from what I've seen over years just in practice is that a lot of times if there is a civil matter. There is a civil matter going on that often. The civil attorneys will come to the criminal settings or talk with the DA about what's going on in the criminal setting, because often times not. I'm not licensed in Pennsylvania, but North Carolina sometimes a criminal conviction bolsters the claim for civil court. So a lot of times there some positioning going on as it relates to Joe what happened with the civil case so you know, Konstantin filed a lawsuit in 2005 in the US District Court for the Eastern state of Pennsylvania. Cosby, you know. Again he was deposed. He testified under oath that the deposition several times and you know he admitted to having a romantic interest in Konstantin and he also admitted to the sexual activity every at every instance of it but again said that it was consensual, and ultimately at the end of the day. Constanza settled with Cosby for $3.38 million. That was the result of the civil trial and so Castor was the DA until about 2015 and so then he is he is not the DA anymore new DA comes and statute of limitations. We talked about with statue limitations were where it in Pennsylvania and it's a 12 year statute of limitations had not yet expired when the new DA got in and almost immediately charges were filed exactly serve just before that statute set to expire.

Charges are filed following the charges. There's two trials. The first trials in 2017 and it actually ended after the jurors were just unable to reach a unanimous verdict. There's a second trial, and that second trial. Cosby is found guilty on all three counts. As we discussed, and he sentenced to state prison for between three and 10 year. We talked about on and after which Cosby's legal team again files that is close in its motion seeking the new trial. I think we should take a break from all the legal mumbo-jumbo Joseph and we should all identify our favorite Cosby and I had a time and a guy got a tie got number one when they found a snake in the basement. That's a very fine episode. I believe, but it's tied with the one where they're celebrating the grandparents anniversary on ousting the Ray Charles is my top two Cosby episodes will all go next and I will tell you I think the grandparents episode should be taken out because it is a classic unto itself. So I think the decade I answered. That is God.

That is the fact that in a positive cycle number one but as my relevant number 180 or two. I believe mine is when will have to go, like put so my first one is when they turn the house into the real world for Theo so he has the paper in a bed and he's got pay for everything and all kinds of stuff so that one is that one is awesome and did when Rudy plays football pretty good. That's a good one. The was the one where who who makes who makes as it is not Denise that makes him the shirt. I can't remember who makes yes techniques that make steel to start recording our trail. Yes, I could have saved just for you young enough to have a favorite enough to have a favorite Cosby saw the young boy when when these when the show aired and I remunerate all is all just remember it in syndication and I vaguely remember watching it, but I think that my my brain capacity wasn't quite there, go, go with the real world episode as well just just because it sounds great, have to go back and check it out.

Well where where we get to illness of Cosby Cosby is a free man now, but he did get a ticket charge and the trials were interesting as this was all around this we know it did get reported he had it that there was good. Everybody should have known that this is going to be an issue later you everybody that the DA, the prosecutors, the defense attorney certainly knew it was an issue. The media didn't really I don't member the way this was reported. I don't remember this being reported and I was reported to me the way I remember is Cosby's a bad guy. He's done all the stuff erred by smiling and again I remember it was it was split. I remember there was a large contingent of that and there was a large contingent of yet you once a conspiracy theorist. Basically people who thought these were bogus allegations. He's he's always been and is having a lot of people bought his argument that these were all consenting adults that all participated willingly but at the days of free man and you think also the climate today with the me to movement and where it is is so drastically different than it was back in 2005. You think how much is changed their as far as culture and the way that society works and is just a it's a drastically different landscape, but at the same time I think there's a lot of things you can take from this and it's gonna be interesting to see how future cases with more of these types of things coming out being prosecuted arrogant to develop what that you Cosby's release is a recent development. I have cut them and scan in the media and honestly have not seen nearly as many stories on it as as I thought I'd see him. He was big news. The day it happened. I haven't seen allow. I don't know what you seem to but I haven't seen a lot of follow-up I just assumed there'd be a lot of like the desert. This is a travesty of justice and I haven't seen a storage it know I seen a lot of them. I did see where his former costar Felicia Rochon released the tweet and then that sweet got some back glad I did it. She had retracted.

Yeah so she, backpedaled on it and you know that she works at University one of the most prestigious HBCUs out there which is Howard and you know they think they at the University took a stance that they could not accept what she said and keep her as a professor there. So she, how did you like the idea yet. She is one of the deans of the fiscal theater I believe it is so that that was kind of the biggest aftereffect that I've seen thus far, and it's important saying as they did in the Court of Appeals in Pennsylvania and remand this for another trial. These charges are done they cannot be. He's, there's no desire to be a retrial. It's it for this.

It's over. Yeah, I think it's also important note to that is also commentary on this a while back that said, you know, that is, it for these charges. If there are other charges, or another individual that is out there that the state technically I believe could bring those charges but with each day that passes you know you're you're running afoul of the statute of limitations depending on when you have been so depends on what's what. You're right it these particulars sets of charges dusted what we think you think you think we see a civil lawsuit from Cosby. Now he's been exonerated and the prosecutors acted. I have no earthly idea of got the monies angry enough to do it. I think we see a civil lawsuit where he seek some damages. I think you may win about this.

Do we see Bill Cosby do any form of entertainment. Again, I don't think so man but that that first comedy special that was that was good stuff and that's what I don't like man I do not like you because he was accused of some horrific things and that has to be dealt with in the court systems been dealing with it and his public image will certainly take a hit, has taken a huge it huge it funny funny when something was funny it still, it's still funny is a difficult concept of the people that make art that you cherish and value a separating that from their personal demons and the things they do. It's a difficult and I think that's what a lot of people have had to deal with this. Looking at or determining who is Bill Cosby versus who is Dr. Heathcliff Huxtable wide. Its heart in every Cosby show.

It is our and you you can't you can't take that away from little Josh Whitaker no matter how to trap but I don't know what I don't know a lot of artists as means.

Now look at a painting and Emily Alex, and I guess that's a great painting or what have you and and I don't know anything about the person that got that unit had at painting I just I'm just looking at the paintings I'm can look at the Cosby sentiment taken from all this time and I watched Cosby show and it's gonna be funny and I'm in a like it fair enough.

I laughingly talked.

I just about enough about Mr. Bill Cosby. He is a he is a free man.

For now, to be interesting to see what happens. It'll be interesting. So the story is followed, but those are the facts as unbiased Lee as we can present them to you, except for my love the Cosby show that was biased. The North Raleigh spitting cobras will be the name of every rec basketball team in North Raleigh for the next several years. Next we discussed the venomous reptiles Joe and Josh back here with you on the outlaw lawyer. We certainly had a lot of fun last segment.

We appreciate Mr. Damien McCullers for joining us. He had to get back to work those and I are stuck with me and Joe get something very exciting to talk about a panic gripped the entire area for a couple of days but we had A's.

I can't remember the name of the handling was a zebra zebra zero spitting cobra zebra spitting cobra web. It was loose and it was it was a big time story here in Raleigh and the surrounding areas. I know a lot of I live down in the South.

Raleigh Garner area and we were afraid that guy was gonna make it down our way and we did know what to do when we when we saw it, but I know well a lot of local media outlets cover that thing 24 720 47 that that is that is correct. And like you said it gripped the town gripped the people terrifying. Of time for everyone. I think what I will Debbie Arriola hopped into a live video so they got this cobra cornered it was loose for like a I guess maybe a day a day and a night out everything a corner on the guys porch and at what is our theoretic came out of his and his vinyl siding and it came out, he saw it and I got cornered on escorts and recycling a live stream in like 3000 people run a live stream trying to watch these folks bring on the spitting cobra of all the things that that are gonna creep out from your vinyl siding. I think that the zebra spitting cobra is the last one you expect and is the last thing you want to see man the so from what I can gather all media. I don't know any of the parties to this but it looks like this may be this family has as a maybe in it.

I don't know if he is over 18 or under 18 but it looked like there was a guy the cat a lot of different venomous stakes at his house look like he had a lot of tick-tock followers, and I think I think I saw one of the videos is are you gonna let one of these things go. Like watch and it move around the grass and I guess it half a million people will watch this guy do his newest often and said they were the owner of the of the snake, which we know as attorneys because there's a statute it's legal to have been a mistake. Yes, so it illegal to own a venomous snake but as with all laws, statutes, regulations, things of this nature and accommodate any kind of activity. That statute allows.

That is he any kind of dangerous in nature, there's gonna be restrictions there to be safeguards are to be things put in place to govern the ownership and use. That's the exact the case here as well. I don't know who came up with that. I saw some I was selling shirts that said they were like North Raleigh spitting cobras which I found hysterical but you know, at 20 January, that spitting cobras as a team name comes from. That's that is actually I do Josh and it actually comes from the Academy award-winning criteria non-collection classic dodgeball. One of the great movies of our time. That was the Globo gym purple purple cobras.

I think they were in the spitting terrorism.

Remember the purple cobras, but may I almost bought that shirt Facebook has really figured me out and said I don't know what their algorithms are and what I said around it. I don't know what I searched for, but I buy a T-shirt on Facebook like every week is that you have to make the ads have targeted Mike dialed me into like old country in old silly movies and in about a stepbrothers shirt last week. That's how they got there every week you're given some of that that hard earned money to these Facebook advertisers which said that the purple cobras actually had speaking of dodgeball had an average Joe shirt as my name is Joe was pertinent. I shall have still got it. I still have it is a classic design shirt. The so in case of risk here is that in here really reports on us all is happening as I can use whose its zebra spitting cobra. Is this and why is it wise loose because I know I and read in a long time but I know there's a statute, something I heard a lot of people asking you know is this even legal answer to the statute. To summarize, it's the North Carolina Gen. statute 14 – 417.

A regulation of ownership or use of a venomous reptile and so the statute says it's it is unlawful unless you do certain things and so some of the things of the statute requires you to do. If you have a venomous reptile is you have to keep it in a lockable cage and the cage must have certain information on their the breed of the snake will, anti-Vietnam who to call if he gets out.

If you see the cages opened and and there's a liability imposed on the owner that if it does escape they have to immediately notify the local officials so that's that's it's it's unlawful to keep these animals in less you do this if you do this, and in theory, you haven't your lawfully owning a venomous reptile. Some people man some people love their animals and they love their event at the have never personally understood the appeal of keeping a deadly venomous creature, but we live in America, man. We live in that the land of the free where people are free to pursue their passions and some people have that passion for deadly murderous animals that will kill you. So I was curious jacket ring. The statute I was curious I've never seen in my personal practice I never heard what the penalties are so violations of the statutes if you keep a venomous reptile, and you violate these provisions is a class II misdemeanor which 30 days I class II misdemeanors at a very high level crime and I can't reading. I was if someone suffers life-threatening injury. That's not a member of the.

The family that's keeping itself somebody else 1/3 party receives life-threatening injury or dies where the statute says it's a class EI misdemeanor. That's insane to me and asked the highest that's at me that's a high misdemeanor.

But yes you like that would be manslaughter if you intentionally release the snake and he killed somebody. Maybe this multiple charges. Maybe I'm looking at around maybe you're looking at Rob. If you're not looking at the wrong weeks we said were to keep our buy biases out of this, but I'm to go out on a limb and I'm in a safe. I'm bitten and murdered by a spitting zebra cobra. I want the person to release this spitting zebra cobra to diff to face more than anyone misdemeanors and probably look at it on Friday when misdemeanor is from anyone misdemeanor just for the violation of the statute but and you still going to get here.

Whatever whatever charge that she just comeuppance for your snake murder equipment here course. Luckily no one was hurt, no one died. The intentional that the statute further goes on to say in the intentional release is a class A-I misdemeanors. I don't know what it means by intentional release. Can you visit this venomous snake have to be kept in its cage all the time 24 hours a day. Can you let it out. Also, to go out on a limb here, Josh and I want to say without knowing the exact definition of intentional release, say, let it in your backyard for tick-tock qualifies as intentional release. This also the statutes of punitive damages and insert interesting thing and in an legal news that you hear from time to time where the judge got compensatory damages were you have someone found to be liable. They have to compensate you for your actual damages there's there's other different kinds of damages. Punitive damages is where the judge can give you a fine judgment against you for any amount that he feel he or she feels is necessary to punish punitive means basically a derivative of a punishment for punitive damages, so the statute allows for FF there's a civil lawsuit because of the release of this snake in a violation of this statute, there is punitive damages, to the picture which could be a big deal yeah I mean I'm just trying to put myself in the shoes of the animal control worker. Whoever the authorities are that are that are hunting this creature you get the call that your you're on the hunt for the emphasis zebra spitting cobra. That's is not an everyday thing, so I've been waiting to hear in the news and it may happen before we we get to air but I have not yet seen any charges heard anybody calling for any charges are denied. I am always curious to see what happens of the distinct spin call and so I got a fill in the media will ignore it for a while, but I'm out there trying to figure out if if there any charges pending. I'll be curious to see if the statute comes in the play real question Josh, are you getting your kids is venomous zebra spitting cobra say what are our middle child wants a bearded Dragon really really bad or or he'll compromise and get a turtle so he may do that but venomous venomous reptiles are not in our future.

That's faint fantastic plan. If you do if you if you change your mind on that. Just keep in mind, statute 14 – 417 men and you should be just fine man what a law affects everything.

There's always a statute there's always a case law. There's always a contract. There's always a clause though the law affects everything that you see in you here it just it just does. If you have a legal issue. If you need legal advice. I encourage you to call our law firm, Whitaker and Hamer, one of our attorneys will be glad to consult with you the phone number for us is 1-800-659-1186 is 1-800-659-1186. That line is set up to take a message. We will get that message and we will have the appropriate folks reach out to you if it's easier to email you can email us at the outlaw lawyer at questions that's plural questions@theoutlawlawyer.com. Our website is also the outlaw lawyer.com and world Facebook and Twitter now and it's the outlaw lawyer. So again any questions for the show.

Any comments or anything we talked about would love if there's something that you would like us to talk about and analyze. Would love to do it and if you need any help from Whitaker and Hamer law firm being in touch with us that way to chant a sperm donor oh child support.

The question everyone's been asking you might be surprised by a recent North Carolina Court of Appeals. So Joe sperm donation is nothing left thing is how we start sperm donation is a serious matter.

Deadly serious. We we got a case that involves this and you know when when this first became a thing I don't know. I can't tell you in this first became a thing I tell you Josh RN at a time in preparation for the show had at the end of my list was sperm donor research and I just add couldn't fit it into my schedule so I couldn't tell you, either. What I do know is I grew once in our 70s and 80s sitcoms and sperm donation was always involved in light one episode right J Gary Shandling's has an episode my court has I think a couple episodes that that have to. That's the one of the premises that you know that 70s show is µ let me it is and a lot of things minutes that it's a go to for for comedy sitcom writers.

It's a staple that's not over here to talk about – that might be more exciting, but no sperm donation that we had a case study. When we have someone Thursday there was a case in here the facts in track and using this is a Court of Appeals case, it was reported earlier this week, but I don't think the name of the case is important announcing the names of the parties were important. So basically what we have is we have a North Carolina man who agrees a verbal handshake agreement agrees to donate sperm to his friend and her partner so that they can conceive a child they decide to do this North Carolina man travels to Virginia and apparently that's where the donation was made, as were his friend was inseminated. That's where the child was born on the birth certificate. I believe just the mother. The mother is listed as up as a parent but the child resides in Virginia.

As for the couple live. So basically, everything is happened in Virginia, except that this man just happens to live in North Carolina and so what happens. Time passes. There is a in Virginia there is a proceeding that happens perceivable he so that our sperm donor can give up any parental rights he may have, and that the couple with a child can adopt but there's no there's record this happened.

There's no judge's order when the court goes and looks in the file. So basically adding this is Warren County Department of social services six outer sperm donor pay back child support. So first off, we don't know this gentleman's name, but my goodness what a good friend. We do know his name. We do, but I'm saying we it. For purposes of this discussion is right were knocking out this this gentleman is Mr. Mr. that's good, that's a good friend to go to those links suggest that the donor lived in NC. Like you said the Virginia couple that he was helping out, lived in Virginia. The donation, the insemination both happened in Virginia.

The child is born and lived in Virginia that parental rights termination happened in Virginia.

So why why is the Suit Taking Pl. in North Carolina so this could question the social services department social services for Warren County brought the action is. I didn't really file much after they they brought it so I don't know what happened there. North Carolina Court of Appeals, in a really good job. We got some really good justices Court of Appeals is that of justice or judge. The judge, the justice of your Supreme Court to judge anything underneath your judge. We got some very good judges on the north, Court of Appeals. They have some very good it's it's always interesting to read their cases and where they were. They end up on things. But here they are like look.

They talked about it's it's a Latin word Lex Loki doctrine Lex Loki sound like a bad guy, but it's a it's a Latin document is means the law of the state where most of the events transpired, should be the law that applies sewing and law. You have a you have conflict of law issues. So you gotta put you in a party North Carolina get a party in Virginia. Some things happen or consummate Anthony Virginia or something goes bad.

What law applies right that there had been a written contract. It would probably have stated if there's a problem with this Virginia law applies, but we don't have that the court has to figure out what law applies to the situation and so I think our court said they were and apply Virginia law.

So Virginia apparently. I guess I know, and so I read this case not licensed to practice in Virginia.

I don't know Virginia law. I don't attended a Virginia law, but there's a K there's a statute there were fewer of sperm donor. Then you have any parental rights they taking care of it. You know, through through some sort of statutory framework is applying outlaw a no no child support was owed.

Are Mr. donor was was free to go, and he did his good deed and then wasn't to be punished for it. But it's interesting to think about the legal ramifications from doing something as nice as being a sperm is one of the friendliest things you can do not have to say Virginia at some of the best sperm laws and they are they are leading the way around on the warfront cited a you know most moving most time this happens. Her sons were written contract deals with it here which data handshake handshake means a lot means a lot to me. But if something goes wrong here in court that it's it's your word against their words know how to written contracts, we have we have some contract issues here.

We had a statute that kinda saves the day and then we got some prior case law also again all types of law contributing to figure out what the heck was going on here yet. You know, I think the lesson if we take anything from from this. The lesson is if you get to be a sperm donor get something in writing stating the terms of this of the donation and you know there's a lot of cases we joke about it, but a lot of cases where a sperm donor has been sought for child support and I'm I'm certainly no sperm law expert, but if we set it once we set a thousand times the law. It is really intersects with everything in our society, including the donation of sperm will again. It's been a fun episode.

We were very fortunate to have Damien McCullers with us today again any questions for the outlaw lawyer's call 1-800-659-1186 whets 1-800-659-1186.

You can get us by email. questions@theoutlawlawyer.com website is also the outlaw will you.com you can listen the past episodes current episodes there at the website or you can reach out to us on Facebook and Twitter.

The outlaw lawyer, Joseph, as always, it's been fun.

It's been great thank you guys are as always for listening.

Really appreciate you. We had some of the things you want to talk about will carry this over to the next episode all our loyal listeners will will talk about these estate horror stories.

The next, catch up with you but great time with you today. Josh, I will see you as an attorney licensed to practice law in North Carolina because appearing on the show maybe licensed North Carolina attorneys discussion of the chosen to be general in nature and in no way should the discussion be interpreted as legal advice, legal advice can only be rendered once an attorney licensed in the state in which you live. Have the opportunity to discuss the backs of your case with you. The attorneys appearing on the show are speaking in generalities about the law, North Carolina, and how these laws affect average Carolinian.

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