Texas Heartbeat Abortion Law, Leandro case refresh, and NAACP vs Moore

This week on outlaw lawyer Joe and I talked about the Texas heartbeat law revisit Lee Andrew and we take a look at the NAACP versus how long will I hear the lawyers on the air. Josh Whitaker and Joe Hamer managing partners that Whitaker and Hamer Loughran 46 combined years of between these two and offices practically everywhere.

Raleigh Garner, Clayton Goldsborough, Fuquay Marina and soon to be in Gastonia. I Morgan Patrick consumer advocate and big voice we just talk and we have a lot of fun with the legal conversation and if you got any questions about what's going on with your legal situation here we go here's the number 800-659-1186. That's 800-659-1186.

You can also send a question to the program and we will use in an upcoming episode questions@theoutlawyour.com and please go visit the website.

The outlaw law, you are.com will fellas were about to get into this so welcome in it's been a couple weeks. Hope you hope everything is good Morgan were doing good where we are happy to be here this morning Joe you doing well. Hey Josh, I'm doing fantastic and I'm so glad to be here here in your voices so every time we sit down and talk for the show seems like your your coming off you come off a late night so you had a yet a late night last night I had a late night last night again I was you know we got the PNC tickets and it's been it's been a both a blessing and a curse because of lethal. I feel obligated to go to like everything things that aren't really in my wheelhouse and yes so we had the Michael Hubley last night. So when you say the PNC tickets I say the Whitaker name or suite at the PNC area. Nothing that sounds more formal whether there yet. That's cool to we can we can go with that potato had the blue blade last night. I tell you what man not the biggest blue blade guy. It's not 100% in my wheelhouse but I cannot tell you what that guy seems like it seems like a gentlemen man seems like a good guy. Seems like the type of guy that I want to be my grandson if I had grandchildren.

I heard you hired is a good entertainer Cesar in a river.

Not a huge fan of his music on a dozen classics but selling is pretty good entertainer keeps the crowd laughing things like that friendly guy man very friendly guy, funny, personable lot covers which is I don't I'm not.

I'm like two songs maybe which maybe that's all there is two or three really resonate but Yemen entertainment dude seem very nice big hockey guy very played on the plate on the hockey aspect of PNC talked a little to smack but Yemen all in all not the worst thing of into it.

PNC not my favorite very very older demographic. They are an older crowd, but you and not a lot of it was in a very raucous crowd. I guess you could say he did his best to get people into it and to get everybody move in, but again, much older traffic. There is a blue blazer crooner so it's almost like 60s in the 70s when you had no the Sinatra typesetting he he's got that crooner voice. He deftly does Minna like I said I hope I hope my grandchildren one day or just like the way you are where you are enjoying the Boyles Watson game one of the World Series sells pretty good game saw the brazen sure everybody in our name leadoff homerun that was also medium me and the boys are pretty excited. That's very minor listeners happy. The Braves are and so it's excited about the World Series.

What sounds cool, man. But did you see Michael blue Blalock, as I think you if you compare our nights uniting one of us is much more manly than the other solid listeners decide who's the manlier man between me and you based on our evening last night. I think Mike my comfort level in my masculinity, as demonstrated by the fact that I forgo watching baseball and choose voluntarily to watch Michael Hubley seeing and dance and interact with the people interact with the people of Raleigh so I think you missed out and that could watch the game anytime you can you can TI can watch the game later.

You know it's DVR I can do that but I can't see Michael blue blade live in person. I did a couple years because he had to reschedule so we rescheduled for times man he canceled. He reschedule, but I didn't realize that because, again, not a huge fan didn't have tickets originally to any of the previous three scheduled performances.

We got the PNC tickets and you be going to con everything, whether we like it or not, we show up because we Tickets so but many even kept using very friendly guy, very funny. I'll give them credit for being super funny and personable and almost funnier than he was a good thinker. We start rubbing obligated on tickets. I still unite season tickets. The state football so Saturday I got I got a man up and go even though they haven't given us a lot to be excited about that and I'll be there lately on state football they been all right Josh, the Miami game is a tough game last week, but we are love will keep on fighting with the hurricanes are doing good. Hurricanes are so we can all be proud of. Yes states, I mean statesman as it is a Duke football fan. I it's tough for me to listen to you complain about anything of football lies but I am nothing were both Panthers fans and that's that's been pretty depressing pretty depressing thing to watch and fold start also good man so optimistic and just complete complete opposite. Now feeling about the Panthers. I think I've mentioned this before. My in-laws are all Western New Yorkers, and so my boys really latched onto Josh Allen and the bills I keep trying to push the Panthers on him and he can do it, and there are all building of lost for life. I don't think I'll ever get back to the Panthers and she lost for life may not be the you look at the bills. You know, prior to the recent history and it is to take the Panthers just being good again. You know I mean it's that's their hometown team and that's that's they can get on they can get on the bandwagon. We just have to be decent had to give them something to believe in man well if is the first time you listen to the show manager to always just ramble on about sports the show without law lawyers intended for us to pick news items out of the mainstream media that deal with cases or statutes and would like to talk about them as to practicing attorneys. Given the legal treatment that these things don't always get in the in the mainstream media yesterday we had a couple things we want to talk about and you know we want to give you couple updates. We spent a lot of time talking about the Leandra case here North Carolina and there's been new developments and that Serena spent some time talking about that the Texas abortion law they got for her to call the Texas heartbeat law.

There's been some updates with that we discussed at a time or two, so we want to spend some time talking about those things and then and now there's a new theirs. It's not a new case there's a new case to us because we haven't discussed it on the show, but the NAACP versus more is a very interesting case, it's getting a lot of traction in local and national media and Serena were in diving to that. That's a very interesting case about a couple things but the focus is on the constitutional amendments that voters approved here North Carolina for voter ID bombs that voter ID amendment is, at the crux of this case and it's it's interesting to attorneys and any interesting everybody for our for a lot of different legal reasons.

Serena spent some time talking about that and enjoy what we we got we got something that's a little less serious that we want to spend some time talking about Yemen and yet we do a lot of serious talk so in in again to go, always being to kind of approach these issues from a neutral attorney-based perspective and look at everything from a factual, you know, presenting both arguments type of of manner want to switch it up a little bit keep things little bit interesting. You know, do some things that can kind of be recurring segments that we can refer back to keep it light, and light. Keep it light. Man gets heavy in here sometime does the abortion talk and the hot button issues we had on so we want to keep it a little light man and we know we we like sports we we do a lot of the sports talk so we wanted to combine two of our favorite things. That being legal movies and a sports based tournament and kind of combine those two things were to come start outlining this this idea start fleshing it out to seek some feedback from you guys work in a organist set up our legal movie tournament to determine the greatest legal movie of our time.

I like it right so we went out were never out some matzoh movies and we kinda got we had a couple polls that really get going, but I think over the next couple weeks means organist announcements on time and try to debate and and through enter listener votes determine the best legal movie of all time out of it will have 64 how to get a true NCAA tournament bracket is the unit NCAA tournament bracket is the best way to solve any any issue like this course bears the only way you do a sweet 16 easily.

I had to get some deep cuts in their me.

We actually need people to have seen these movies so yeah I think sweet 16. Maybe bump it up to 32 if you if you run into that but I think 32 you will be stretched.

Yeah, I think I think 16 sounds like the magic number yet we don't need. In 1932, you know, black and white sure there was sound tight movies in there and what I think would be hilarious is to get your legal minds. The two of you behind one of the pair and you guys debate against each other. The merits of your movie. I like that I like a man. I like it too, and that's why were to flush this idea out live to do the brainstorming process literally on the air so we can we can turn this into something.

Something that you guys deserve to hear and at the end of the show. If we have time. If this if we if we are brainstorming is in Philip the whole rest of the show. We do have a listener question. A good listener question about personal injury.

We have a lot of folks to call us to have a car accident or that you know we call that personal injury law and that's up popular area practice.

You see a lot of commercials law stuff on TV. We have a very practical question from a listener, so we figure we throw that out there and talk about that but in a nutshell is working to cover today. The outlier Josh Whitaker and SchellHamer Whitaker and Hamer law firm to the managing partners 46 combined years experience again offices in Raleigh Garner Clayton Goldsboro to quavering and soon to be in Gastonia and we talk all kinds of legal family law, criminal and traffic personal injury estate planning and administration, real estate closings.

All of that if you got any questions about what's going on in your legal life. Call this number 800-659-1186.

That's 800-659-1186. You can also email questions to the program and we will use them in upcoming addition you can also your favorite legal movie that will help us out to questions at the outlaw law.

Your.com that's questions@theoutlier.com can also visit the website and that website is the outlaw why your.com were back right after this coming up next.

We rehash and update the Texas heartbeat abortion law, the Leandra case and the latest updates in Gabby's managing partners, Whitaker and Hamer law firm 46 combined years experience folks. They have offices in Raleigh Garner Clayton Goldsboro to quavering and soon to be in Gastonia. We talk legal each and every week it's very serious stuff. We also have a lot of fun with this. I Morgan Patrick consumer advocate, and again, family law, criminal and traffic personal injury estate planning and ministration real estate closings if it's legal. They're doing it in the offices of Whitaker and Hamer again. Raleigh Garner Clayton Goldsboro to quavering and soon to be in Gastonia if you got a legal situation or question get on the phone 800-659-1186. That's 800-659-1186 that get you in touch with Whitaker and Hamer and an attorney will return your phone call so leave your name, number and little detail on what you got a question about and they will be back and touch and you can also send questions to the program questions asked, the outlaw line your.com and please visit the website de outlier.com you can find older shows in podcast form. Therefore, you just pick your subject matter and listen to your hearts content gentleman I know you got updates for us. Yeah Morgan so we got a couple cases that we talked about on the show that have had developments over the past couple weeks, and so we thought we'd bring everybody up to speed and the first one Joe I think you followed it more than me, but the petite to investigation that is as seemingly come to an end. It looks like yet seemingly come to an end, Josh tragic, and you know no matter how you look at it and basically I think most people, this is been one that folks are followed. But unit remains found believed to be the remains of Brian laundry. The suspect in the case and at the Tito's boyfriend tragic. You know for for the laundry family tragic for the petite of family and the sense in one sense that you know you don't you don't get answers that you probably wanted and you don't see note justice done in the way that you probably wanted but then at the same time, you could look at it as resolution. Just it just a tough case all around and it was you know we we talked about on Aaron someone knows I was around town here and someone was talking to me about it and I think we had mentioned, you know, maybe the feds would eventually charge laundry's parents. Maybe his accessories nephews out there hiding that might get them to come out if the if the feds thought that maybe the parents said I did some aiding and abetting word been an accessory after the fact her helped him hide things from the crime, which is always difficult, but then they they mention something to me that I hadn't really thought about what that was your son in an endless. It was assumed he did it. So if you're centered on something horrible like that like what would what would you have done, you know, and in that kind of situation and that was a hard because I just spent some time thinking about that and I was like that's a hard thing to reconciling your in your brain. You know, man. It's a terribly it's a terribly difficult thing to reconciling you know you'd like to think you raise your kids right and you do everything you can to to teach them the right way to live and and you know bring them up the right way, but at the same time. I guess you never really know him and I guess you never really know how things are going to go. What outside influences are going to come into your kids life and how they're going to grow and develop. You never want to have to deal with that. But but you're right, that's the question that I never want to have to answer man only for one, absolutely. Ellie absolutely registers as one of things, it was tough to think about dessert. Kids are still your kids in an adjuster was a terrible terrible story all the way around and and and hopefully we don't have to hear about that stuff so much like it's the mainstream media takes an interest in something like that. You hear about it for weeks and weeks and weeks so hopefully that's that's behind us, but I'm so those families will never be the same when he said despite some answers and some closure that folks are never going to get, but seven seems like it's come to an come to an end in and our next update is something that's not gonna come to an end for a little bit.

We'd spent some time talking about abortion law unique antiabortion law in Texas that some folks of dub the heartbeat law Texas heartbeat law. I just remember that was about. I do you know we talked that we talked a lot about the Texas law. We we counted did one of our classic deep dives into it and we talked about the way that the legislature, it kinda tried to circumvent in an almost deputized the public as far as you know how they were going to Conoco about a unique way of essentially prohibiting abortions and had some real interesting legal nuances to it that we we kind of looked into and and if nothing else, I think we agreed that it was that there was deftly an interesting approach to the way that they were trying to you know almost circumvent the precedent and that stated essentially that into abortions were were permitted yeah I heard I read heard.

I read somewhere after this.

I haven't checked the stat they said this because of this law, abortions were down 80% in Texas and of course, depending on what side of the finches that on it's either good or bad news but this, this law is is very weird right is this law went out of its way to avoid the state taking any action and an end and nothing at the time we predicted. There's no way Harley setting. I did honor what you put it to Joseph but I predicted is there's no way this law makes it through any kind of any kind of really examination legal examination like a Supreme Court there was I can't remember who now when there was a emergency challenge that there was try to get the Supreme Court the Supreme Court voted not to hear saying that there is no standing known and been harmed yet and it was a five for decision and this is, of course, this there's there's some abortion or some big abortion cases we talked about that a week or two ago coming up on the Supreme Court's docket and skin to be. If nothing else can be interesting to see what the court does new court, you know, has to say but on this illness.

Texas heartbeat law and of the Justice Department made an emergency appeal to block the Texas law on that case, that's can be heard on November 1 so the Supreme Court when a headedness coming emergency added to the docket so oral arguments going to be on November 1 at as to how this Texas law operates. You know and as that'll be interesting if they got to the Supreme Court fast as it probably should answer be interesting to see what they do with it. You talk about my prediction and I have a room with predictions we make on the show and is generally where were fairly like-minded individuals and you you got wisdom about you so I usually just predict if you're if you're curious about what it did and I predicted what you have a wisdom about you. He's calling you all do I play the lottery and the beard is a lot of old people frankly are dumb and and so being old doesn't doesn't necessarily mean that your wise your wise me. There's young people who are wise you're one of those your your somewhere in the middle age but your wise man event that is not a good safe file. It's good to be interesting. This this abortion law. It it it has more you know clearly you know you got justices that are for or against abortion and Supreme Court justices are supposed to respect the precedent and the precedent is that abortions are illegal to a certain extent. There can be certain limitations.

There's a there's a test for that this law not only affects you know whether abortion is legal or not legal but it also has just a bunch of weird weird legal theories, and it and and stuff that's never giving standing. The people that have not been harmed.

This is just a weird law. This law, for reasons annoying having to do with abortion. I can imagine this law, leaving it to the abortion part is lost. Probably just cannot get struck down. I would think just on its weird weird theory of deputizing your private citizens and giving them standing to recover damages against people have nothing to do with their day-to-day lives will be a pretty easy one for the courts to get rid but who knows. I've been surprised before. Yeah, I'm in. I will agree with you wholeheartedly based on your wisdom and issue sound logic man like you said, there's the abortion is challenged constantly and you get that they're the kind of the run-of-the-mill challenge UTC the same unit arguments that are that are planned out and I think some of those we talked about her coming up for the Supreme Court, but like you said, the thing that that really grabbed us.

In this case was just the weirdness of it and the way the strange way that the enforcement mechanism was was implemented and basically like you said deputizing individuals and and I'm with you there, it's we say a lot.

It's a slippery slope and and allowing this to proceed opens the door for similar kind of backdoor ways to to create these these methods to work around constitutional protections and at out. I just I don't I don't think it it stands up either the. The last Alaska someone hit real quick and are in her kennel update segment never doing as is Leandra. We talked about when Andrew two or three times now the Leandra if you remember, is the case, the 2525+-year-old case in North Carolina where it was where it was discovered one of the one of the things they found one of the facts that they found in this case is that kids growing up and in counties aren't wake in Mecklenburg aren't always get the same kind of school funding. I think we did a quick review but a lot of schools get funding from the state and local levels of county towns and cities insert if you live in White County 11 Mecklenburg County, Charlotte, Raleigh your public schools get a lot of funding above the state level. If you're from the county doesn't have as much population, then your schools might not get as much funding and so Leandra found a constitutional right every kid.

North Carolina has a constitutional right to the same education is as every other kid and Landrieu in the case, there's Judge Lee is presiding over the case is as said we need accurate number the exact numbers at 1.7 billion in additional funding to these counties to make sure that there get the same level of education is as other kids in a course.

We talked about how you know the court isn't really the one that makes the budget right that's reserved for the general simile North Carolina in the Gen. assembly, said they were not doing it and as I said in a nice way were not doing it. You can't make this and so just the past week or two.

Does bounce back to Judge Lee and and he said will judge the court has a way to do this. I think mean you talked about contempt and we didn't really get to the correct term. But the judge has a weapon that it can use a tool, it's a writ of mandamus, which is a very awe-inspiring name there. Sound like a really old-school Lord of the rings type weapon or something but Joe, you know, the writ of mandamus is yes Joshua, I am familiar with the writ of mandamus.

One of my favorite terms. Almost think we should change the name of the show to writ of mandamus is that a good basically the writ of mandamus.

Like he said it's a tool it's basely an order from a court to an inferior government official that orders that government official to properly fulfill their official duties or to correct some abuse of discretion in a Catholic, I'm back in six grade plan plain old Dungeons & Dragons got hit with the writ of mandamus in the but yes the court has this tool it doesn't get used often.

But they have a tourniquet order under under the penalty of contempt and to to do something government official and the examples that I saw there was a similar case and I think out of Kansas and they find officials every day for not complying in the font got pretty big and ever. There's another state really shut down all the schools until this was done that was what they think the court contracted in order like off these kids can get the same education as the other kids were to shut down all the schools until you know it gets funded and Judge Leah said he doesn't want to do either one of those things if he doesn't have to.

All the parties are talking this will be a really interesting showdown at some point, both the sides are determined not to not defined level playing ground it into what what I want to get something to happen.

I think the deadline was November 1 on that I got a lot of stuff happened in November. The outlier's Josh Whitaker and SchellHamer Whitaker and Hamer law firm. They are the managing partners 46 combined years experience it again. Offices in Raleigh Garner Clayton Goldsboro Fuquay rain and now in Gastonia. If you got a legal question of your own of the deals with family law, criminal traffic, personal injury, estate planning and administration real estate closing any questions you can call the firm 800-659-1186.

That's 800-659-1186 and an attorney will be in touch.

Leave your name, number and a brief message.

Also, if you got a question for the show that you'd like to for us to answer incoming weeks while you can email us questions@theoutlawallyour.com that's questions at the law, you are.com go to website the outlier.com back to this Amount of a lawyer.

We talk about NAACP the Raleigh Garner Clayton Goldsboro and few quavering offices located there. Also now in Gastonia. If you got a legal question, we want to call the show deals with family law, criminal and traffic personal injury estate planning and administration real estate closing. If you've got a legal question call this number 800-659-1186. That's 800-659-1186 and leave your name number and a brief description of the situation and an attorney will be back in touch with you. Got a question that you want red on the show and answered on the show.

You can email it a questions@theoutlawalong.com that's questions@theoutlierlawyouare.com and please go to the website de outlier.com I Morgan Patrick consumer advocate big voice and referee between these two guys I know that you're gonna get into the NAACP versus more we know Morgan Ng is important and you did a good job reminding everybody but Joe and I we are practicing attorneys licensed in North Carolina and we spent all day when you're not here with you. Consulting with people who have legal issues and answer case law is really important. Understanding what courts will do people come to us. They want us to be able to say that his legal problem.

What can do about it goes to court when you think will happen and so me and Joe were keen observers of what's going on in the courtroom and when that stuff makes news especially big news we really geek out on it for better or worse, and so we haven't spent any time talking.

This case is been around for a while, but the NAACP be more is it is a case is before the Supreme Court right now and it's very interesting for a lot of reasons, I Scott.the usurper case. When I got started in its about to come to to an end one where the other ports are talking about the case we need to make sure everybody's listing is what gerrymandering is.

Joseph what is gerrymandering man I thought you would never ask how much you'd never ask. So, simply put, gerrymandering is the manipulation of boundaries of an electoral constituency and it's it's generally done by by one party or another to favor that party so you know in the past.

It's kind of been used, to manipulate lines and and make districts more favorable based on demographics to again certain political parties throughout history.

There's been a real racial aspect to that as well and it's been it's been used in the it's a kind of immunosuppressive votes from from certain classes in its it's basically a political tool that's designed to in a way manipulate the process is is the way that I would describe yeah yeah absolutely yes it was very interesting. You know the people you elect. You know it's different for the yeah the US is different for states. Every state scannable different every county draws districts never basically somebody is always in charge of figuring out what what your district is for for voting purposes satellite times like a North Carolina Gen. assembly usually has a big hand and in drawing these district lines and and you may be aware, these district 6 voting districts don't often conform with the no county or town near some counties get split in half as district in White County is like you, not a sliver of Garner in half a Fuquay somehow gets into Z is like a weird district but please districts get drawn up. They usually get drawn up at some point in the past by Gen. assembly is controlled either by the Republican Party or the Democratic Party and Simon make a controversial statement here is that everybody, Jerry Mancino, depending on who's in charge.

I ran out of Republicans had control of the Gen. assembly in North Carolina for a while and so were talking about there being accused of of of gerrymandering more than accused. There was will talk about that anyway.

Gerrymandering is a thing that happens and I guess the thought is that the party in charge will attempt to gerrymandered districts to stay in charge something that's kinda the accusation that Beck comes out and so here North Carolina. There's a big federal case couple years ago. Some districts that were drawn up or found to be racially motivated. Which of course is a big no-no for all kinds of reasons and so there was some there was there was gerrymandering so with some of I think it was that I didn't write it down here and I'll thank you so there's 28 districts that were it is this federal court case found that had been gerrymandered race was used as a factor and that's a no-no.

And so the federal government. The federal court may North Carolina draw new districts which is happening over the past couple of years and second brings us up to where we were, but I happen to believe in late 2016, 2017 and 2018 the Gen. assembly to constitutional amendments for about North Carolina is work to well first off I want to say Josh couple things you know were coming out with some some at the outlaw law or swag everybody be on the lookout for that renascent T-shirts were absent had things like that gave me a couple really good T-shirt ideas in your in your explanation set up the first is everybody Jerry Mance and then the second is that's a no no.

I think both of those on the back of his shirt make a lot of sense wildly be widely popular as those phrases so yeah but you but you're right and everybody does gerrymandered and and it's in. It's one of the imperfections of our political system, you know, each party they get in the power and and I guess it's human nature, man. I don't know any other way to describe it but there they are looking for ways to their looking for ways to to protect that power and and that's kind of where this this came about it. It was a way to protect powerful political parties and you you reference those two constitutional amendments, and simply put those two things are really voter ID based and then based around state income tax limits and we talk about constitutional menaces North Carolina citizens amendments to the North Carolina Constitution Gen. assembly had a vote to to draftees and then put them on the ballot and they both guess this was 2018. They both succeeded right so we have a rev a ID basically to vote. You need a voter ID amendment on the books. It was real sure how is going to be enforced under some other things going on there but in the Plessis PD the more there. The whole basis here in the sky complicated, so will try to make it. There's no reason we don't have enough time to get super complicated but basically the theory was hated the Fed the federal court said gerrymandered 28 members of the Gen. assembly were voted in and districts are found to be illegal.

You have enough votes to even put this on the ballot. So these companies constitutional limits. I got voted in should never been there in the first place. They were void and are not effective because of these these 28 districts that were that illegal members voted into the Gen. assembly's that's kind. This kind of theory that's interesting is if that logic is is correct enough that the court say yeah that's that's good then in theory, any law that was passed in the past couple of years could be attacked under the same logic.

That's right – and is going to get a big detour here but you know we talked about the writ of mandamus, cool word right. Gerrymandering also very interesting term.

I just headed I headed put our research team on it and again there there amazing. They get good things to us quickly and the term gerrymandering actually get it actually comes from the word, the name Jerry and the work salamander I don't if you knew that Josh, but I just wanted to let you know that I have never heard that I never yes apparently a bit it it originated back in Boston and ended and a district was was remapped and drawn in a strange way that actually resembled a salamander and that's where that the term comes from.

So the more you know and it's interesting you. You figure were like that's got to have a good back story you back to the case at hand, and we don't have a lot of time to spend on this, but the first court level. Those Superior Court agreed with the plaintiffs that yes this these amendments should never made it to the ballot void and basically were going to say they don't exist or not. Amendments which Court of Appeals the Court of Appeals at a couple things to say about this. Plaintiff still have standing.

You can't. This is bad law because everything can be challenged in every again. Everybody gerrymandered as Canada. The two Senate summary as an hour before the Supreme Court. The case itself is interesting enough.

Obviously there's a lot riding on it. A lot of people in politics are paying attention to it before the North Carolina Supreme Court in any we got to Justices on the Supreme Court who were theory were in the Gen. assembly or are somehow related to the process when these things got voted on and may have even been parties of this lawsuit it at different times and so now the big question is, should these justices recuse themselves from this very important case and and and Jennifer everybody.

I think Mr. Wright probably knows about what is that mean when a judge or justice recuse themselves, yet interesting, you know it whenever you have a judge that has some kind of interest that would create any kind of a conflict and in a situation where there whether to be voting on something you generally you would see that judge recuse themselves in and to take themselves out of the process because you know you're supposed to be judging based on the merit based on the law and you don't want any kind of biased to interfere with that and there are certain situations where you know, a judge may have a personal relationship with an individual are there some could be some other factor that would potentially insert some bias into that decision-making process and you and you see you know. Either they will voluntarily recuse themselves or they'll be some kind of a motion made to add to have them recuse and and it's interesting in this case because you've got attorneys for the plaintiffs that have actually in a move to have a couple of the justices removed and worked recuse in this case because of the fact that like you said, they they were in some way involved in voting on the original legislation engenders another level to this. To do so, and I don't really I don't I don't like politics. I don't like Democrat versus Republican. I think we all should be looking at things from her own common sense perspective and not along party lines. Unfortunately, judges belong to political parties, judge elections have become political, which I think is as bad for a lot of reasons that we will get to hear the court is split between Democrats and Republicans in the two judges that are being asked to recuse themselves happen to be Republican, but if you look if you look down the party lines if they recuse themselves than this, this case will probably go to the to the plaintiff. If they don't then you know it. It's kind of 50-50, but you never know what Justice Kennedy justices don't necessarily fall you decide things on political party lines. They take everything into consideration, but it is just is just an interesting case all the way around and something will be watching and then you certainly seen on the news voter ID aspect of it actually is just a really small piece of it.

The legal the legal process behind it to me as much more interesting than whether the voter ID amendment stands or is voided out.

But anyway, it is an interesting case, the outlaw lawyers Josh Whitaker and SchellHamer practicing attorneys here in North Carolina.

Also managing partners at Whitaker and Hamer law firm 46 combined years experience again offices Rollie Garner, Clayton, Goldsboro, Fuquay Marina and Gastonia. You got a legal question 800-659-1186. That's 800-659-1186. You can also email your question to the show and will use in an upcoming episode questions@theoutlawlive.com and please visit the website. The outlier.com and as you just heard there's gonna be some merchandise available. I love it merge the outlaw life or back right after this coming up next on the outlaw law.

Your we will begin to brainstorm and outline our tournament of the greatest legal Whitaker and Hamer law firm practicing attorneys right here in North Carolina offices in Raleigh, Garner, Clayton, Goldsboro, Fuquay Arena and Gastonia. If you got a legal question involving well, almost anything, family law, criminal and traffic personal injury estate planning and administration, real estate closings. They are here for you.

800-659-1186 leave your name, number brief message and they will be back in touch with you. 800-659-1186. You can also email questions to the outlaw your program questions@theoutlier.com and please check out the website, the outlier.com where you can find our podcast and these are our shows and you can just click on the subject matter have some fun with that will guys are now getting into the really hard-core stuff where it's the legal movies and this opens up a huge can of what ever because there are so many but we gotta limit the number I believe Morgan Mrs. we been talking about a lot of meeting topics today is abortion and an voter ID in writ of mandamus in gerrymandering and so I want things we want to do. Michelle is going to be that heavy all the time and so me and Joe are cutting an argument amongst ourselves is what would be the best legal movie of all time. So a movie that involves attorneys our court case or investigation. A really very broad but I think what we want to do only going to 64. I think we will have a 16 movie tournament so sweet 16 to crown the best legal movie of all time man. We talk a lot about how the fact that the law permeates everything, something we can be too broad as we could basically just turn this into a best best movie ever tournament if we get too broad with it and yelling as part of overdoing member flesh in this idea out because you got you got so many movies man you have so many legal movies, some good, some bad, some so bad that they're good, depending on depending on what your interest is but I think 16 is a good number. You know that the committee can meet in and discuss next year, expanding the tournament if we need to depending on if I many contenders get left out but but I'm with you man. I think 16 is is where we start and anything that gets us a lot of a lot of meaty entries in their guys, I just went through the said you can have listeners so they can contribute maybe set a date on when you want to start and and when you can unveil the 16 and you have some fun with those discussions and then you can do the pairings bring that back another week and then you can talk about the matchups and then you can go you can go into this match of each and everyone. And just have some fun with it yet or not Alexander that I think we we kind of put the next two weeks so two weeks from now world will will come and try to set our field and will have a matchup each week and can go from there. Will put a pull up on the on the Facebook page and the website will try to get some listener input, I'm looking right now. I printed up the American Bar Association actually has a 25 greatest legal movies. They arty have their list and something perusing this list because one of my all-time favorite was to kill a Mockingbird, which I think a lot of lawyers like that movie that's there that's their number one to kill a Mockingbird by Congress perusing what these movies are older, we some new movies.

We Christian trust. We can't trust their list Josh think we can we we can't trust that list so is older, your own list and what will you Josh you because you know our loyal listeners of the show the people who have really listen every episode and have been with us from the start. First of all, we love you all. Second of all, they may remember that you seem like three movies that can be a problem you need it you what you need to do is when we finish the show usually to go in and binge watch every legal movie that we can possibly 50 my, I just noticed that one particular list. I'm looking at has animal house listed as a legal movie they pull out all I don't know there is that that the student court. Remember to loose. I've seen father is not allowable as well. Absolutely. So this list I'm looking at is America. They're all black and white as like miracle on 34th St., Young Mr. Lincoln Lincoln from 1939 I guess that's a movie okay. The people who made this list are dead of old age – that's why we're up.

They were coming up with our own list and working to do it in the right way, because what I can list the 16 best, as no one cares about the 16 best number one best guys I think we need to have a show meeting" Will Ferrell from old-school really go streaking right after the show and have this conversation will run down.

I don't know downtown Fuquay or something. Now I'm kidding, but not II think this is really a lot of fun yet will will will get our list together me and me and Joe and and Morgan will have some suggestions and will put some suggestions to her listener and and will settle on our 16 sedum and will will will take it movie by movie, but always make Jack to get busy.

Love these movies I've never anatomy of a murder, 1959 months later in your ear focusing on the wrong things man you know I think we need that we need to listener suggestions for sure because I think 99% of our listeners to see more movies and you have qualified, but how can we do are you having fun. We do want a happy medium loose. I think I think not. You brought medium so it has to be that I think the primary subject matter has to pertain to the legal field and you know it can't has to have some strong legal tie. You know and and we can't just go with student student Council process. It needs to be legally based mental health guys and if animal house gets and is the best legal movie of all time. I've never thought about it that way but that's a clear-cut contest winner that I I'm sure that's required viewing it. Most of the elite law schools in the country. Morgan we we are looking forward to visiting this will be a lot of fun and like a said will going to something up on all social media website and if our listeners will shoot an email or give us a call with their suggestions and we'll talk about it will get to our 16 and will have some fun with our arrival we got a wrap up segment coming up here on the outlaw lawyers. And remember, you can call 800-659-1186.

That's 800-659-1186 that get you in touch with Josh Whitaker and Joe Hamer Whitaker and Hemlock from the managing partners their offices in Raleigh, Garner Clayton, Goldsboro, Fuquay and Gastonia and folks, this is an opportunity for you if you got a legal question you can ask it. An attorney will be back in touch with you with those answers and if it's family law, criminal traffic, personal injury, estate planning and administration, real estate closings. Again, if it's legal they can answer the question for you. You can also email questions@theoutlawlawyer.com and as you heard Josh say, social medias can be packed with our question.

Of course we can have that sweet 16 for legal movies have little fun with that and you can send your suggestions to questions@theoutlawlightor.com Bellmore segment that's coming up right after this next Alastair question about personal injury. What should you do after the outlaw line the air, Josh Whitaker and Joe Haber managing partners at Whitaker and Hamer law firm 46 combined years of variance again offices in Raleigh, Garner, Clayton, Goldsboro, Fuquay Marina and now in Gastonia and they are practicing attorneys here in North Carolina and covering family law, criminal and traffic personal injury estate planning and ministration real estate closings. Most of his legal they can answer your questions will throw this number out.

If you have one you can certainly leave a message and your contact information and attorney with Whitaker and Hamer law firm will be in touch. That's 800-659-1186, 800-659-1186 and you can email questions to the program questions@theoutlawlineor.com John we have one final segment, and I believe you have a listener question. We do Morgan because we get a lot of listener questions from the show, which I enjoyed reading we try to respond to everybody since in a question and just sore list is not a big stack of these kinds rotate through try to mix it up with a lot of good questions this week, but most of them were kinda about things very talked about the return to mix it up and Meijer were talking earlier this question on personal injury don't think we talked about personal injury. A lot of the show her listener question again. I kinda generalize it and summon up a little bit.

Basically, it's you you been involved in a car accident.

What you do next bit you been in a car accident. How do you how do you perceive you didn't and that seems like have a weird question for folks a been in a car accident because your kind on some adrenaline there and you're not really in your in your right mind, I would say but Joe leading the first thing you would advise a client has been in a car accident will first off, you know you said it Josh, it it's it's kind of a strange thing to think about, but it's it's another one of those things that preparedness really makes a lot of difference because this is gonna be a situation especially if it's or if it's a relatively serious accident where you know there's gonna be some shock there's gonna be some adrenaline year, you may not be thinking as clearly as you would normally.

So the more that you can have this burned into your subconscious and kind of understand what the process should be the more you can recall that in the better off you're going to be in longer as I think answer your question, just the very first thing you should do is you call 911 for assistance immediately adding that step one yellow. This will depend on knives. If you're in a serious accident.

You're not your beer you're injured or your your knockdown courses. This is going to come of it.

Gonna our advice kinda vary between a is this an incident or disaster, property damage, or is this an incident where you been severely injured but yeah if you're able to even in your in an accident, you will not you want to call 911 and what I tell people is that we support very important.

You're in any kind of accident at all you know the police report. Some important we had folks call us and they were just backed up to each other in a parking lot.

You know, the officer did give a ticket, but that officer's investigation, even if it's brief is going very important to your attorney you like he said man that the police report is of extreme relevance and it's gonna be important to the attorney. It's gonna be important to the insurance company assuming that you get to the point where your you know your negotiating with them, your attorneys, negotiating with them in the in the off chance that this is something that gets litigated and goes to trial. It's good to be extremely important for the jurors and the people considering the case it's is one of the most important aspects and you know it's it's because it's it's technically kind of a neutral observer's observation of of what took place and it gets a lot of that gets a lot of consideration by those individuals looking at it on the back in the process of making sure that you do that and then again you know it's you may need that assistance, regardless that, I think.

Step one is that like you said, and in any can we distinguish it's important to distinguish. We talk about I been in an accident you note, property damage versus personal injury because there's gonna be handled much differently by attorneys as well. One thing Joe backrest are driving in the early 90s I had a I had a little 35mm camera and the card it was in there just to take pictures. If there was an accident or something happen.

I can get out stamp some pictures of the accident scene and down the in the 2020s. We all got our phones. There's no excuse for you not to be able to assure her right.

But if you get out take pictures where the cars are break marks anything.

You can see on the accident that that would be important to 1/3 party was looking at it unit document that now that's not nearly as hard as it used to be in an honestly man enough taken it a step further and this may be overkill. Some people may think it's overkill but you know – more cameras are very easy to come by now and that's something that you you may not think you needed until you need it and having that it is going to be like the most slamdunk surefire way to prevent someone from trying to say you did something you didn't and it could just be very valuable and I get on not telling everyone to go and get a dashboard camera installed but it's it's something that is worth considering for sure. The other thing that I always try to stresses even once law enforcement unit whoever Sheriff trooper whoever's coming out there cooperate with them answer their in and answer the questions to a certain extent they have to do their own investigation and insert.

Certainly if you're in the right you know just in and that's good. I can goes against him and some like that you think you can be criminally charged with something that was a talk to your attorney but you know we got turned in front of you mean gives you give the law enforcement some basic information so they can complete their report. That's what I would sag us some attorneys may tell you different. But you haven't done anything wrong, exactly. There's a fine line between Infantino incriminating yourself and then not coming off as combative in coming off of come as combative and uncooperative is generally gonna be not beneficial to you whatsoever when you're dealing with law enforcement. In any situation. But at the same time you you do have a right to to not incriminate yourself and there are times when it's absolutely best to not speak too much to the authorities so you can almost have to use common sense and and and kind of be able to distinguish between those two situations, but generally speaking, you don't want to be unpleasant. You don't want to be outright difficult root abrasive to law enforcement because it it's never gonna benefit you to take that approach, not not the situation for sure.

You know, and ended officer when I get on the scene course are and I want to know if it may be obvious. You need medical treatment. It may not be, but certainly it always get the EMS out there if they think you needed are you are you requested, but you need medical treatment get it unit going want to contact your insurance company which is a lot easier now most disastrous copies of apps and things like that but yeah it's it's a guess, common sense thing deftly record and preserve as much as you can tell you guys that's that's great information. So many of us are in these Fender vendors and just have that kind of step through process where you can make sure you do it all. You know, call 911 obviously secure the scene if it's a serious accident exchange information document the details cooperate with law enforcement, seek medical treatment if needed. No contact at insurance company and of course talk to an attorney if needed. Again, great checklist, we are wrapping up the program guys another great show, looking for the next week. The outlier Josh Whitaker and SchellHamer Whitaker Hamerlock from the managing partners their offices in Raleigh Garner Clayton Goldsboro Fuquay Marina and Gastonia.

46 combined years experience if you got a legal question call this number 800-659-1186, 800-659-1186.

You can also email questions to the program questions at the on the line or not, check out the website, the outlaw lawyer.com see you next week is attorney licensed to practice law in North Carolina disappearing on the show maybe licensed north Carolina attorneys discussion of the chosen to be general in nature and in no way should the discussion be interpreted as legal advice. We would like. Once an attorney licensed in the state in which you live the opportunity to discuss the backs of your case with you. The attorneys appearing on the show are speaking in generalities about the law. North Carolina and how these laws affect aboriginal Carolinian. If you have any questions about the content of the show, contact us directly