Jackie Hill Perry: Your Home. Holier

It was a couple years ago that I had to make the decision that how I treat Preston is indicative of what I believe about God. Literally. And so it's like I can't talk crazy to him and not think that God doesn't care. I can't dishonor him and not think that God doesn't care family life today help you pursue the relationship matter by Nan Wilson Wilson. You can find his family life today.com for on the family family life today welders you know him that I heard in church growing up, I think prior all of us have. I don't think as a kid ever saying it. I just listen to it, but it was you know who you know. Yeah, I think I was church hardly ever growing up, but that is the only one that I do remember that I I'm just a recording of our audio engineer Bruce Goss little girl Estelle Goff at about two to half years old, singing the lyrics to this and I think our listeners that you got here this he can really carry a tune that is precious so she is singing whether she knows that yet are not deep theological truth and understanding about the character of God. He is a holy God.

We got Jackie hope Perry back with us today to talk about the holiness of that God. Jackie welcome back AL what you think you hear that that little girl sing that song is precious in that and just what a memory that that is you get what for kids do girl you are in it.

I am is beautiful, especially because I never one I never knew I would have this many children, but also didn't know you.

You never know if you end up married and with children, especially with the background that I have missed. It feels like a really big gift that God is good, then somehow the most of the wife and a mom you write a book about the holiness of God holier than thou. How does the understanding of God's holiness of impact we just talk about you being a mom you being a wife and your family impacts everything, namely that we know that we are holy when we are bearing holy for self self-control patients kindness joy about their kids and Mike there are very holy know they're not.

If you thought you are holy, you know, does have some kids around babysitter and you will see us and we really are bearing fruit. During that time gets it like they challenge you to actually live up to what you say you know what I think one of the things that convicted me a lot when I was studying for this book was when I was reading about how God is a judge and therefore he will and does judge saying and how people tend to think that the Old Testament God is the super vengeful God and that the New Testament God is the super gracious God, but then I was looking at the Old Testament house.

I know God is actually been incredibly patient with all of us one. None of us should be alive, like we we all been sending since birth, but then you have, you know, Israel, who God judges Egypt when he could've judged Israel but he just chose to show grace and I thought to myself God has been so patient so as to leave room for repentance. Yeah, I am incredibly impatient with my children. You know like I thought about if God was as impatient as I am, I wouldn't be here and I just don't mess with my mind is that like I just need to mimic God even in his parent taming of me that is yeah and what I would do in my parenting when I wasn't exhibiting the fruit of spirit.

Think about that as a mom and kids love, joy and peace patient just know is right there, like those are hard to attain.

Apart from abiding in Jesus in John 15, but what I would do without think it's not my fault it's my husband think if he was home and if he was helping it in the main thing how the enemy gets us to shift from ourselves to something else that's causing the pain in our lives and I think that that really for me.

That was my go to shift the blame right on to you as you now because she's holier.

I think I do trust my man probably do that. Yeah, I got I got a feeling that by me. I think it's, you know, as I listen. So different for dad.

We do the same thing.

Maybe even more impatient, but I think it's so easy to think okay I can focus on the holiness of God. But I'm living around unholy people and I'm on holy so we live in that rather than this we go horizontal rather than vertical, and especially in our homes is sometimes a hearse place to live it out because it's so daily you know it's super helpful know about the home is that I think when you are a Bible teacher, especially you can spend so much time knowing Scripture that you somehow think your knowledge of it is synonymous with your living creatures.

I feel like my home is always a reminder of what I actually like who I actually am. This is like you are you do something well since all good and fine, but when you go you had added to you.

Got all shot with your husband you super patient like that's who you are, not necessarily just your articulation of the truth is, I think that's the interesting kindness of God really is to use our homes alike show us our hearts, that is a good trick. We spent so much time taking care the outer physical self that we are, what would it look like and showing the world we show this world.

This version of ourselves always had this thought since I was in my 20s, I thought what would we look like if the world's our inner person you know we would take way more character of our soul and our spirit lead me spending time with God all the time because not revealed to me like all means I care more what the world thinks about me and what God thinks about me. I'm thinking why don't we want to spend time with Escada. If you tell me you want to spend time with this holy holy God. Now this part that I'm amazed Jackie with you writing this and I feel like he paint such a beautiful and clear picture of what holiness is because God feels intimidating, like I'm not enough like he will judge me like no other, even in Christ, he will judge me. And so the picture that you painted of the holiness beautiful definition of it is way better than anything we would want. Yeah man, God is both far and near, in his holiness he is transcended he is set apart, he does exist differently than us, but he also has come nearer to us in Christ, which is all the evidence we need that he wants to be known by us know like he is a Manuel and sex is a faith thing at the end of the day is that I really do have to have the faith that God really does love me and that is not lying when he says, yeah, especially what you said earlier that of I don't think I've considered it this way, that who we are at home is who we are and it's so easy to think who I am out in the public in as a preacher who I am on that stage and in lobby is who I am and I put so much time into that image Jackie but I don't know this, our listeners do so will go into details but there was a night. Years ago, our kids by little, as a pastor Sunday night and literally system is regrown in the bed. You know I so wish the man who let our church lived here. Oh my goodness she said that I knew exactly like I'm sorry I did hear that absolutely said store. So are you joking you use may use pressure. I wish she was joking how I felt yourself terrible like why would I say that right time in convicting was prorated.

I should have said it the way I had that I watch him years, but I said I like you is the only outside he like crazy when you pray be on my knees and you inspire people. It's incredible.

I know I know what happens is I do ministry get tired when you get home you just want to rest. This is your place of rest today for Dave Carol thing. I responded I just great. I said I know your husband is lousy got a really good Moses was. I know what here's what I was I was believe this lie is what made me think of this when you said this is who I am out there is really who I am. Know the truth is, she pointed out who I really am not leading and inspiring my own wife and kids that were real life is and so that's the question it's it is in my world easier to be that man out there it's harder to be that guy here, but that's who we really are. So how do you live it out at home to say that writers think this would be a great dinner conversation. If you have kids that are even seven older asked them how do you guys see me at home. Who do you think I am asking that went nice to everybody outside and not nice to.

This is so hard I guess. I think for me, knowing that God cares about both like he cares about who I am at church who I am at Kroger and he cares about who I am at home.

If I were performing for people out in the streets, but at homicide. We let our guard down. But as I know you have to work at this to why because God cares and like one thing that's always in the back of my mind for me is I would hate it when my children are older 1817, 19, 20, and they say my mother was not the Jackie Hill.

That you guys know that would just break my heart and I know would it would govern even how they do their face as they would have divided lives to because that's what I modeled right and so I don't know I'm convicted.

We all know this as a parent we are modeling for our children at three years of age and at 18 years of age. Our view of God.

They are catching it the matter what we say or teach there catching it so. To understand this holiness of God is a beautiful attribute of God that draws me rather than repels me.

The question is, as a parent is what what you've got my transfer down to my legacy as a young mom nice to feel the pressure like I'm responsible for my kids walk with God. I felt this pressure that the older I got, the more I felt like all I need to do is walk with Jesus. I need to be with. I need to read the word I need to pray out loud.

I just need to live what I feel in front of them. I'm to be honest, our kids are older they forgot all the other stuff like creatures they don't remember any of it, and yet they remember Mike I remember you reading your Bible all the time and so those are the things that matter that they catch you now by watching yeah but hopefully those are things that we don't want to see is reading her Bible but live in or out under the beauty of a holy God. How are you doing Jackie like you're in the midst of discipleship in your home very natural as I used to like compare myself to you know the family worship every other Thursday, you know, they sit down and go to Rebecca's with the five-year-old and talk about Amos and I just lay out I'm a little tired to do all that. So I think my children are getting disciple just as we flow so for example, my oldest who seven when I take her to school. We listen to the Jesus storybook Bible and I my ask her questions but is also 6:45 AM so I might not but you got some at his wording saying we pray every night before bed, but my three-year-old is as simple as saying Jesus name, amen.

When you're scared you know you have nightmares you say Jesus like I'm teaching you where to go when your freight is very casual but I don't know that's better good. I think it sounds like an overflow of your life yeah yeah and that is discipleship. What about in your marriage because I know sometimes that's worked really hard. How does holiness look at mom and dad usually either with Preston or your house that look because I know it can be easier sometimes I modeling for my kids.

I want to.

That's what marriage is like raw like you you like me right now the holiness of God is not you know you front of my mind man. My relationship with Preston is the bigger challenge because it's it's so united and close and important and I think it was a couple years ago that I had to make the decision that how I treat Preston is indicative of what I believe about God literally wow and so it's like I can't talk crazy to him and not think that God doesn't care. I can't dishonor him and not think that God doesn't care that as actually the fruit that bearing and so I think that's one but to having a creating a safe space with each other. I want to be a place that you can confess and feel safe about that.

And vice versa.

I want to be a woman who will bless you and inspire you and pray for you. I don't want you to be fearful that coming to me means no getting some shame dumped on you is I don't know. I guess this holiness is being loving really essence a holy shared is beautiful. That's what we all long for and so I'm guessing you guys don't do a perfectly absolute because no coupled and I'm incredibly dramatized so that's the thing with me. So I think when you come from a home with fatherlessness and sexual abuse that complicates the way I love and my ability to receive it.

And so I think holiness gets real weird when you want to love but you don't want to be vulnerable, not being vulnerable means my guard is a mean more mean a more irritable I'm more hypervigilant in all regards that exactly so makes holiness as it expressed to me serving my spouse harder words like oh is not just that I need to die to sin, but also need to be healed. Feel like God has helped you in getting healed. Yeah, I'm being healed. I don't think I will ever say that I am healed right so I think therapy has been instrumental in my ability to be a freer woman in my relationship with my husband and what you said I think is so key. If I want to die to sin.

I have to understand my healing if I'm not getting healed.

I'm not going long term data. Soon to keep going back even though I'm free in Christ, a new creature.

I will understand. Why do I still battle this. I haven't dealt with the junk because so many of our sins are coping mechanism that we've developed from sins against us. And so I think we have to identify why am I responding to this this way and I had to go back to when you four, five, and you rejected or you are bent and abandon our abusers. I owe I need to deal with this thing so that I'm not triggered by things that I shouldn't be triggered by what one example being for you to think of something anytime I feel controlled iBook against it so I can be something as small as Preston comes in and says give me a kiss that triggers me something less cute know the triggers for me it's all you want to control my body because I'm a person who sexually abused and so me and him have to work through. I want to get your kids. But we have to reframe the way you get, you know like I don't feel safe right now. So that's the thing. So to have that conversation is the most important part, well besides God coming in hearing but to have that conversation. Otherwise you just rejected him yes and then he would've felt hurt he would've withdrawn and you have done the same, or you need to be a community with people that can identify that for you. Some of our pain is so suppressed that we don't even realize why we're becoming so defensive right you need help to say you just want to guess you are. You met me inside.

I think having good friends that are observant that are prayerful that to be able to spot those things for you is also a really used to and good friends in the community where you feel the freedom to share the vulnerable share of the witness safe because I think there's some of a misconception of if I'm around a holy God around holy people you hide everything because that this diminishes the holiness of us and of God. We think yeah but the picture your goodness of God's holiness is beautiful means. Now I want to bring that to God and he'll receive in a way that I feel beautiful true yeah he will reject that he will beautify it. Why I listen to you 30 minutes with the Perry's your podcast where you and Preston talked about the porn struggle in your marriage, which was so good and raw and you know you think about the holiness of God in the holiness of the sacred marriage to be able to struggle as a couple through that help us understand how that conversation reveals the holiness of God. My brain goes to so many places because I think what was really informative for me is to recognize that one person had the season where he struggle with porn that it wasn't simply because he was lustful but it was also because he was lonely. He was feeling rejected by me he wasn't receiving the comfort emotionally and physically that he might've needed and that's not saying that I'm to blame but it is to say that because he was not expressing how he was feeling as a man and as a human being he was tempted and ways and went down the path that he should not of gone and so I think for me to learn all men are much more complicated than I've given them credit for, which is a reminder that he's made in the image of God. You know you are very nuanced individual, but I think what the challenge was okay.

He sinned against me. I have two options. Either I will send against him. Therefore, sinning against God by rejecting him the whatever and I went to the season for I will be compassionate and I will be merciful and I will walk with this man towards righteousness and healing. What we can get back to a place of wholeness and in health, and so I don't know I guess that's that's what it was, as both of us having to trust God not only with ourselves but with the other person that I can control with Amanda, but I can help. That's what we've talked about so often the enemy his plan and strategy. Let's say if you have a spouse is struggling in that area is strategy. I did this wrong for so many years is that any strategy is that we turn and face each other and fight one another as I did that with Dave when he had confessed early on in our marriage that he had struggled.

Then it became all about me and my own fear of rejection.

My own insecurities and not being enough and so instead of turning to gather to face the enemy who is speaking lies in trying to divide us.

I turned and started fighting with Dave you think that happens a lot in the family, but I like that he said Preston wasn't expressing how he was feeling soft in our marriages.

We don't because we hurt one another and we pull away were afraid or scared so afraid to be the same day we got any part of it is because we think is holiness is untouchable. I can get near him and I do have to show nothing but surety rather than my weakness, my sin and what you've revealed even in your book holier than thou, is when we come vulnerable. We see the beauty of holiness. It captivates us you're listening to Dave and Ann Wilson with Jackie Hill Perry on family life today and Jackie's got a good wrap up on what pursuing holiness looks like in just a second.

But first we have family vice president David Robbins with us today. David tell us about what's been on your heart as you been thinking about these things reflect on these past few days with Jackie hope. It makes me think about the generational impact of us as husbands and wives and moms and people in homes living together in close proximity processing what's going on in our own hearts.

Processing what is affecting us that's making us do the things that we are doing and when we do that and we really go there and take that to Jesus and allow him into the crevices of our of our lives, with his grace and his truth.

It ends up transforming us in a way that not just impacts our home in this moment, but it impacts how a kid grows up impacts the next generation ends up being a model for how we live out the gospel every single day in our homes. I'm so grateful to be a part of the ministry like family life is about not only impacting your home and other homes around the world, but impacting legacies generation after generation. I think those of you who are partners of family life to give financially to build a get truth like we've heard today two more homes so that the grace and truth of the gospel can transform more lives. Yeah, thank you so much for making what we do. Possible here at family life to impact generations and when you do partner with us, we'd love to send you a copy of Jackie's book holier than thou. It's our thanks to you when you partner financially today with us you can give online.

A family life today.com or by calling 800-358-6329. That's 800 F is an family L as in life, and then the word today.

Okay, now here's Jackie on how you can pursue holiness to pursue holiness, I think, is to attempt to live out our original design and so Genesis 3 there hiding from each other and God, and were always reenacting that and so it's I think holiness is pressing against this this need too high to be afraid, but to actually let me embrace freedom and that's a scary place to be, but it's a good place to be and I have to believe that God is the one who will ultimately and finally protect me. I can't protect myself. I'm not that good.

On behalf of David and Wilson. I'm Shelby Abbott will see that next time for another edition of family life today. Family life today is a production of family life accrue ministry helping you pursue the relationships that matter most