Carolina Journal Radio No. 703: Latest Obamacare rate hike raises questions about viability

From Cherokee to Currituck and the largest city to the smallest and from the statehouse into the schoolhouse Carolina Journal radio your weekly news magazine discussing North Carolina's most of public policy events and issues welcome to Carolina Journal radio why Michiko got during the next hour, Donna Martines and I will explore some major issues affecting our state. Crowdfunding is a relatively new term, but the concept isn't that new expert from UNC explains how crowdfunding help boost North Carolina's economy more than a century ago. Some pundits and politicians of the political left want to boost the government mandated minimum wage all the way to $15 per hour or why that idea would be bad news for teenagers, the poor and the least skilled North Carolina workers plus shall hear from a couple of speakers offering advice to conservative college age women one offers helpful tools for engaging in public debates.

The other challenges conservative women on college campuses to fight political correctness.

Those topics are just ahead. First, Donna Martinez joins us with the Carolina Journal headline 24.3%.

That is, the average rate hike that Blue Cross Blue Shield of North Carolina says it will impose for 2017 N. Carolinians who by an Obama care insurance plan through the company at a sticker shock reflects what's happening across the country as the Obama care bad news just keeps on coming. Catherine Restrepo is the John lock foundation's director of healthcare policy. She joins us now with the latest on Obama care Catherine welcome back to the program.

Thank you so this Blue Cross Blue Shield rate hike is really staggering and doesn't actually follow another staggering hike from last year. Yes, I mean, the AP in the White House just reported well yesterday that average the average benchmark plans are the second lowest cost silver plans on these exchanges which relate those of the plant that determine how much someone receives as a subsidy based on their income onset is benchmark plans, on average, there are increasing by 25% and that's a big deal because in the past years. While we've seen overall average increases of double digits on those habitat have typically been lower on employer plans are also really in the single digit increases. But when we look at the individual market. It's it's this recurring theme that's happening that these double-digit premium increases are happening.

People are being stuck with higher out-of-pocket expenses in addition to much higher premiums. That's not the way health insurances should be structured. I mean there's nothing wrong with high deductible health plans which are what a majority. The plans are in the exchanges now, but typically they come with lower premiums. So there. There needs to be a better restructuring of the exchanges for this to be a sustainable market at all. And of course the irony from those who believe that there's a better way other than the government program called Obama care is that his real name is the affordable care act. Yes, so that's a little bit sadly ironic and unraveled rating were absolutely here in North Carolina about how many people are going to be affected by this rate increases well really is so that the White House is trying to sort of oh you just tone down the situation by saying these are the underlying premium increases. So this isn't when subsidies are factored in case they say that's kind of like, if you buy something off the rack that's not really the price is someone to pay right because some people will have subsidies that will yeah, exactly. So depending on your income on you can qualify for a first subsidy that offsets the cost of your premium and in some cases it can even offset the cost of your out of out-of-pocket payments like your coinsurance or even on towards your deductible set really depending on your income. So for for if you think about it for an individual making around $25,000 a year who doesn't have health insurance through their job and they access and they purchased a health insurance plan on the exchanges they really do benefit they're really not paying a lot out-of-pocket and their monthly premium is heavily heavily subsidized but for the rest of the exchange population anybody really making above $30,000 on when you're just looking at the individual level and I'm just saying individuals because I've been looking up on healthcare.gov on ever since yesterday or two days ago. People can sort of look around and compare prices and an out-of-pocket sharing with what their plan may cost when they sign up for 2017 but on it's really it's really unaffordable. I even with subsidies evenly subsidies it's it's really not affordable for a lot of people. So I feel like when the media says while 90% of people North Carolina qualify for financial assistance. I think that a lot of people are sort of lost in the mix there because it's that such a blanket statement to say that health insurance is affordable for those 90%.

This is happening across the countries and not yes is not just a problem. North Carolina's is a problem nationwide. I mean and I think in in Oklahoma are seeing an average 66% rate increases in New Mexico. It's over. It's like 100%. I mean it's insane what has gone wrong because the promise of the affordable care act Obama care was that this would cost us all less money, we'd be receiving more and better care and everything was going to be great as the government got involved in, and to put in place the mandate that we all have to buy an insurance policy or face a penalty. So why hasn't that right. Well, it's that there are so many overlapping variables that have contributed to this mass. I mean, it really is a death spiral in the works.

Here you have really for these exchanges to be sustainable, the Obama administration predicted from the get go before these exchanges open for enrollment for the first time in 2014 or January that about 40% of the enrollees had to be the young invincible population are the young, healthy, low users of the healthcare system to offset the risk that there that insurance companies had to take on for the first time the higher risk because they couldn't deny anybody with the pre-existing health insurance health condition on so that the problem in North Carolina were only seeing in nationwide releasing about 1/4 of enrollees and that young invincible age band between 18 and 34-year-old who are actually signing up for the plan, so the estimate was that in order for this to be sustainable, 40% was the level of the so-called young invincible. Yes, they're gonna pay but they're not to use various services yes and there's there's I mean so many other factors.

For example, all of the special enrollment periods, people are being able to game the system by signing up for health insurance on it's like this pent-up demand for healthcare. In some cases because in fairness is very difficult in the in the past for people with pre-existing health conditions. If there price on the insurance market mean, that's a serious issue. I think that could've been handled a lot differently to find more feasible solutions and sustainable solutions to fix that problem. In fact, was actually happening here in North Carolina for Obama.

Yes, a lot of states have their own federally funded and in state-funded on high risk pools for people with severe chronic illnesses. Then on I mean of course there's going to be holes in any system by it for the most part it was working fairly well on now going back to the you know other factors that are contributing to the un-sustained like the volatility of this market.

So you have the young invincible signing up but then going back to the special enrollment.

On people are able to sign up at different points of the year, you know, not just during the enrollment. Windows are able to use healthcare services for three months at a time not pay their premiums and drop their plan and then the insurance providers and the doctors are on the hook for those expenses that have been incurred that justifies common sense that you can use the service and just refused to pay.

Yes is anything that there is that you know there's a three there's a three month grace period where enrollees are are allowed to do that without having an they're not hit with the individual mandate, sign the penalty for not having health insurance. These younger people healthier. People who are not signing up at the levels that the system really requires for this to have any chance of working. What are they doing are they just paying this penalty on you know I really don't know the actual estimates of the numbers on that or you know the different age groups of people opting out and just willing to pay the penalty forgo health insurance. I'm really not sure but I do know that it's just I think that helped young healthy people who don't have insurance through their job would be much more attractive to plans. If you have okay fine have a high deductible but have a lower premium that's affordable I mean I was just looking today on healthcare.gov and 20, say 26-year-old starting out making $30,000 a year mail. He would even he will qualify for a subsidy that he, on net, his premium would still be around $122 a month for catastrophic plan with six without six or $7000 deductible. So no lower your premium and if you're still willing to pay the deductible. That's what an insurance policy ought to look like and that's where Obama care stands as of this assignment. Right now we been talking with Catherine Restrepo.

She is the director of healthcare policy for the John Locke foundation think he is a with this much more Carolina Journal radio to come in just a moment, North Carolina is changing not just day-to-day but outward to our minute to minute and 2nd to 2nd, how can you keep up with the changes, especially the ones that affect you, your family, your home, your job, make the John Locke foundation and Carolina Journal part of your social media diet on Facebook like the John Locke foundation like Carolina Journal. Follow us on Twitter at John Locke in the sea and at Carolina.

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Follow us on Twitter at John Locke in the sea and at Carolina. Journal welcome back Carolina Journal radio I Michiko guy you might've heard the word crowdfunding though the term is relatively new. The concept is not our next guest recently addressed the John Locke foundation's Shaftesbury society on the role of crowdfunding during a key. In North Carolina's economic past red Lane is director of the UNC Center for competitive economy spoke to the program management breeder so crowdfunding people probably heard about this. Our legislature talked about this during the most recent session and that the concept is been around for a few years in terms of the name crowdfunding but you say the crowdfunding really played a role back in the late 19th century in North Carolina you enjoyed the attention of the crowdfunding's been receiving lately because I'm aware of the North from his own tradition. It's been a very important role in our economic development. After the Civil War the double solution will result from the state and its investors were really derivative capital and decided the only way out of their economic situation was below pull themselves up by their own bootstraps and invest in manufacturing. There was a recognition that we lack the institutions, the financial resources and really leave the wealthy class to investment and industrialization sold alternative strategy was developed but was to pool capital for many small investors across North Carolina build manufacturing plants, textile plants, tobacco plants, furniture, plants became Road the economic center of the small towns that still dominate North Carolina limited small investors would pool quite often through investments of his little as $0.50 a week investment in a local mill constructive textile mill employed local workers would use locally grown cotton produced textiles that would then be sold across the US around the world.

Result was that the profits will be imported back into the state back into the pockets of the many investors in the small towns credited the coat of wealth� But many of them through some of the most recently troubled economic times.

Was this a new concept that that timer was a revival of something that is been used in the past. While I'm sure throughout economic history.

People who pooled their investment when they have the means to do so. What was remarkable about this was the breath of this was both a public spirited campaign led by community leaders through a purely private enterprise model. There was a recognition that this was all a government role will this was something the communities could do to benefit themselves economically and collectively they would benefit as well. It's been I think a remarkable success story North Hall that we have forgotten about. We think of industrialization in North Carolina's being a fairly recent phenomenon, one that's a result of companies moving here from elsewhere, but the wave of local investment in local enterprise that began in the 1880s and really continued through the night to early 1900s, million textiles and furniture and tobacco products will sustain the state for century the many ways accounts for the physical and the economic and the political geography we still have North Carolina for North Carolina monks. The larger states in the notion has a larger share of population in rural areas.

We are in many ways, still a state of small towns and many berries and at the heart of those towns was an industrial plant. A factory built with local capital employed local workers using local inputs were chatting with Brent Lane, who is director of the UNC Center for competitive economies a you much of that. This was done through the private sector ethics of people listening today might think what will have that happen on its own without the government being involved with the sort of the spark that convince these people to go ahead and pooled their resources. In this way, when there were there were a handful of highly influential what we at the University of Portland call fault leaders who were engaged in the anomaly business but in local government across the state and they recognize that there was no economic salvation coming to North, but what they produce for themselves.

So there was, I would say a broadly orchestrated campaign using the media available the top, just as we use social media now to promote things like crowdfunding, the relatively new social media of the. The of the newspapers provided an outlet for organizing people in and sponsoring the sort of local collective investment.

The character is a talker were talking about rural North Carolina and the fact that the way that it looks today is shaped largely by what happened during that time.

A lot of people talking about struggles of rural North Carolina today. Do we need something like what we saw in the late 1800s.

Again, I like to remind my colleagues at Chapel Hill. As of the concept of innovation and entrepreneurship are not new ideas North Carolina they been part of our state economic history across the state throughout its history, but sort of industries that were being created in the 19th century through this collective investment. They were some of the high-tech industry will. The textile mills were using the new technology. They were using steam. They were early adopters of electricity. These were highly entrepreneurial, technologically sophisticated industries. There are still many opportunities to do that across North club included in our rural areas.

One the things that I emphasize is that our rural areas are not monolithic. There are number of very successful companies being built today.

The generation of economic leadership in rural North Carolina is in the small and fast growing companies. We see dotted across North Carolina of the John Locke foundation certainly is always happy to hear someone talk about the private sector leading the way in and being involved in this but the government can play a role in helping these businesses thrive and move forward. What's the probable for the government's wealth we have for the last 30 years, focused primarily on the dullest recruitment as a government function and economic development. Fortunately the last few years we focus not only on recruitment but also will taking care of the businesses that are already here. By making sound changes in simplifications in our tax code in our regulatory policy things that reduce the friction facing every form of employer across North Carolina. I we were start to see the benefits of that strategy. We have spent the last 20 years were per capita income of the study was declining relative to the rest of the US but in the last four years we've seen an increase in per capita income we are seeing economic gains across North Carolina in small towns in a larger cross industry in part thanks because we've improved the climate for small business on existing industry across North Carolina. Thus, systemic approach that we need to make sure we continue to turning back to the whole crowdfunding issue with which we started. We saw some legislation dealing with crowdfunding in the general assembly this year. Is this likely to have a major impact in North Carolina or is it just to be one piece of of many things that need to happen to help our economy thrive move in on crowdfunding's encouraging because it taps into the spirit of the people have that they want to participate in their economy not only as employees but also as investors I think there's limited breach of limited expectations.

What's more current crowdfunding initially but it does point to the opportunity we have which was to enable more people to become capitalist is what happened in North Carolina over hundred years ago people became investors in the local economy benefited not only as employees but us capitalist themselves think of anything we learn from it. Is it more capitalism by more capitalists is the best way to have more economic benefits for more people, and so if history does it to repeat itself perhaps rhymes there is a cadence to history as well as in the discussions of history I find within North Carolina's own economic past. There are many lessons that inspire and edit files. I Far rather look to examples in our own economic pass than try to copy things that may be occurring in other states. We have had many successes across working was economic history. A few of them were the result of government but primarily result of entrepreneurship and the private enterprise system. I expect that will continue to be the salvation of the state something we need to enable more people to participate in. That is the voice of Brent Lane. He is director of the UNC Center for competitive economies. Thanks much for joining so you very much will have more North Carolina journal radio just about at the John Locke foundation where leading the effort to clean up the mess left behind by big government liberals for decades.

The powerful left in our state had piled on rule after rule, regulation after regulation never really caring about the people whose lives are caught in the nightmare of complying. In other words, you their handiwork had made it tougher to get a job even increase the legal risk of operating a business.

We say enough is enough that it's just not fair to you. That's why reform minded lawmakers have turned to the Locke foundation for answers and they acted to lighten your burden were proud that our intellectual firepower has improved lives. You can count on the John Locke foundation to watch out for your interest. The special interests.

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So now not only will you enjoy what you buy. You'll also support freedom. Don't forget log on to smile.amazon.com today by something nice and help defend freedom. Support the John Locke foundation will Qu�bec Carolina journal radio why Michiko got conservative women from college campuses recently converged in Raleigh they heard from experts assembled by the Clare Booth Luce policy Institute. One expert, Becky Gray of the John Locke foundation. She dispensed a key piece of advice live in reality, this movement think that you all are committed on that we have committed our lives to smile.

Easy it can be ugly and call things on Twitter that I can't even repeat can even unit just among us girls on you know you will be you will be attacked you will be accused of things that you didn't do. You didn't say things that you say will be misconstrued. Things that you said will be twisted around.

It's not easy.

It's hard to live in reality understand this is what it's going to be, but if you are committed to it.

If you're doing what you love doing what your life mission is you've equipped yourself with the ideas in the thoughts in the and are able to communicate those ideas. You'll be fine. Gray also emphasized listening skills. He had listened to the other people you have to think sometimes in these and see the salon on cable TV. People are involved in an exchange of ideas and they just yell at each other and you can tell it did not there not listening to each other.

It's important to listen if you're going to communicate and if you're going to make the most effective arguments and debates in points that you can listen to the other person yet. Put yourself in their shoes where they coming from, put yourself where they are live in that reality.

Don't forget to listen to other people in economically come out of the box and you not succeed on every issue that you wanted to.

It doesn't happen overnight, you know, we may be why we may have the best ideas met communicate them really well you walk out of here you can walk into a buzz saw and so a lot of these ideas quantities big ideas on these big movements. It's incremental it's taken years to move through this up and working on an eminent Danang public private property.

Constitutional amendment ever sense the kilo decision came down so for years we've been working on that were still not they are well hope next year that will get there on so many of these things you have to work on incremental compromise. Take take the chip away at the problem chip away at the fight. Take what you can get the gear up for the next fight because believe me will be there tomorrow and also in reality you have to understand that this fight for freedom this fight for liberty despite the personal responsibility goes on every single day.

The left isn't going anywhere they are well-financed, they are out they outmanned us in many of these fights. There can it be that this is something that we have to get up every single day and commit to and find that's Becky Gray of the John Locke foundation is offering advice to conservative college women will return with more Carolina journal radio about if you love freedom.

We've got great news to share with you now. You can find the latest news, views, and research from conservative groups all across the state. All in one place North Carolina conservative.com one-stop shopping for North Carolina St. movement had North Carolina conservative.com.

You'll find links to John Locke foundation blogs on the days news Carolina journal.com reporting and quick takes Carolina radio interviews TV interviews featuring CJ reporters and Locke foundation analyst plus opinion pieces and reports on higher education. All of that from the Pope Center for higher education policy commentary and polling data from the Cintas Institute and news and views from the North Carolina family policy Council. That's right, all of that, all in one place North Carolina conservative.com that's North Carolina spelled out conservative.com North Carolina conservative.com. Log on today will Qu�bec Carolina journal radio why Michiko Kai conservatives are outnumbered on college campuses. The number of openly conservative women even smaller conservative female college students gather recently in Raleigh they heard from people like Kate open Shane author and political activist. She urged college women to fight political correctness no more important battleground in the entire country college campuses. He has been writing on college campuses.

You are being completely shut down when there's an intent to completely shuts you down to see you in the name of political correctness. Now I ask you right now to come legally and totally reject that the complete nonsense that is political correctness speech because free speech zones shrink morning sensitivity training incident review committees for civility in our discourse to freedom and you need to let him deeply because you are being told right now that colleges are trying to do good.

We want people to talk.

There are certain lines that we do not want you to my people feelings to be her evenings words matter. You hear the words matter and we have to be very careful that we don't step on anybody's test complete and total BS and you will need college is not about keeping your ideas to yourself college campuses for pizza that is where people want anything wherever you are firmly anyone you should be able to speak the words that something genuinely really believe some people are stock plans in your mind about how to become elected and they want to implement this evil vision talking about that you know you can use your your and your energy is idea exchange. Coronation is good and respectful. Please reject open Shane discussed the heated nature of modern political debate are kind and good people like to be called names way that concern is having this for decades but not really made it acceptable when he started calling his opposition conservatives. He started calling me any terrorists here, now, children with down syndrome or with people when he first sat in the grass and the liberals no longer say the differences we disagree with you on saying raising taxes. We think they should be raised because no conservative always agree with conservatives that concern is evil because of what they think they are morally flawed because we want to keep taxes low. We poor people and we average people working when I keep them down.

That's the voice of Kate open Shane speaking recently in Raleigh for a conference sponsored by the Clare Booth Luce policy Institute. Hope Richard explained the reason for the verbal attacks are our position with ideas and said disagree people wants to keep poor people call Ryan very courageously years ago said report entitlements engaging in open conversation about the present need to actually say security the pushing this little old lady and shoving her off the cliff graphic and disturbing shut down the entire notion of forming the other direction when going anywhere little lady off the cliff and want to drive right out of existence.

Bankruptcy with a little old ladies when you have more entitlement open. Shane turned the focus back toward the college campus is now our society take microcosm where you are bad coming from the silence you should be to you, you speak outside the political orthodoxy next what craziness is.

You guys are hateful. Please stop, turn around and come one after another reason your curtains characteristic that you're going to need in order to be able to take on the political practice please that are running on your campuses. So what can students do. The first step in being courageous on campuses is raising your hand in a class and just agreeing with the professor's basic super hard super important and you know you will get whatever the subject actually actually believe that global warming is a theory totally. This is a really big one. I believe marriage should be between. I believe that immigration illegal immigration is a threat to national security.

People look at you like you and the professor shut you down. You there are people in that room with you and just say there are people perspective expressed to start thinking here is an alternative. There is another way to think about things is a huge moment that you have just changed you 1 Person Going Way beyond classroom that's conservative author and political activist Kate open Shane speaking recently in Raleigh to college women will return with more Carolina journal radio in a moment at the John Locke foundation where leading the effort to clean up the mess left behind by big government liberals for decades. The powerful left in our state had piled on rule after rule, regulation after regulation never really caring about the people whose lives are caught in the nightmare of complying.

In other words, you there handiwork had made it tougher to get a job even increase the legal risk of operating a business. We say enough is enough that it's just not fair to you.

That's why reform minded lawmakers have turned to the Locke foundation for answers and they've acted to lighten your burden were proud that our intellectual firepower has improved lives. You can count on the John Locke foundation to watch out for your interest. The special interests.

We would be honored to have your help in this fight. John lock.org and make a tax-deductible donation. Right now the John Locke foundation were fighting for you were fighting for freedom, welcome back to Carolina journal radio I'm Donna Martinez want to keep North Carolinians working and you need to reject the notion that raising the government mandated minimum wage to $15 per hour SM of proposed that's the conclusion of a new report that looks at the economic research related to minimum-wage mandates. It's a report written by our next guest, John Sanders is director of regulatory policy for the John Locke foundation John welcome back to the shell so exactly what do we mean when we say the mandated minimum wage. Choose mandating that what is the federal government has mandated that of the lowest hourly wage can go for most workers is $7.25 per hour. There are some exceptions for tips waitstaff and things like that but for the most part, a $7.25 per hour in the state of North Carolina has set their laws so that the minimum wage here. According to state laws.

The federal minimum wage. Okay, so any business in North Carolina then has to pay at least 725 an hour unless it's some one of those categories right it's prescient. Waiters and waitresses, things like that. Okay so who wants it to be higher than 725 will in the last few years it's become an issue among Obama the president and the Democrats in Congress and then also for the state for four Democrats in the state level and moral Monday, activists and liberal activists. What is their argument for raising the mandated minimum wage. Their argument is the idea that if we make wages higher by law than everyone will make more money. That is, essentially, I think what they think is going to happen so they see it as something out of compassion, so they are making things better for the lowest earning workers in the state. However, the research for there's no employers as well as employees and their economic reality. Six.

Take care that make it so that the actual effect of raising the minimum wage hurts those who are most in need of. It's interesting their argument John because I think anyone with a heart who wants people to do well would say yeah that would be great if if my friend is struggling right now could make more money working at his job at the factory or his job in that office down the street and of course we self interested folks which we all are.

Would like to make more money but I think your point is an important one that you outlined in your report then you say that despite those good intentions wanting people to make more money that really doing this hurts the very people that the advocates are trying to help explain how that's possible.

First off, there's only about 5% of workers in North Carolina who are at the minimum wage, as it is currently set of those are in general start of workers, teenagers, people with low skills, people with their first jobs so these are people who generally are not earning higher wages because they're just now finding their value in the workplace. The problem with raising the minimum-wage, especially to very high numbers of the DM creases are being talked about now are not just slight booths or cost-of-living adjustments in minimum wage, they are. If it's up to $15 an hour it's over hundred percent. So you're talking about very large increase if were to go that high that would impact over 40% of workers because people are earning nine dollars an hour. $10 an hour. $12 an hour for all of those people would be impacted by a minimum wage being jumped up to $15 an hour. If an employer was required to increase that minimum wage level.

The person who actually is getting that increase the benefit right then because they're going to be getting a bigger paycheck. That's right. So where does the negative economic impact Ken will to sound like an economist four-minute, those workers who retain their jobs, will do so because employers see that their value is greater than the current wage they're getting so if they continue if they get minimum wage when it's double what it was, then employers by that definition of have decided that they are worth. What happens is, and what has happened in previous instances of of high increases in the minimum wage is that especially teenagers low skilled individuals find it harder to find employment because employers are not judging their abilities to be worth that amount. So they get left out or they get paid under the table or employers just say automation here in this instance could be better. I just saw an article today about Wendy's restaurants is starting to think about moving into kiosks and in several places because not be able to afford wage on their worried about minimum wage being increased so much and that's happened in several other places. So if someone is an employer, John, and they're looking at this possibility if if this were to actually happen and there have been calls from those on the left to increase this mandated minimum wage up to $15 an hour. They're probably looking at at the folks that they employ an entry-level position making that minimum wage and saying no matter what it could be the most wonderful person in the world who has a lot of potential, and I really want that person to work here for me but entry-level job that they're doing. Simply I simply can't justify paying that amount of money for it. How do we try to help people who are advocating for this big increase to understand that that is the economic reality of an employer.

I tried to in my in my work and my writing to explain the situation and explain the economics of it. It's just an instance and there are so many other instances like this in the literature were what sounds good, has unintended negative consequences that just work out in the real world. And this is a kind of a bad instance of that because for the most part, people want this really do care about their fellow man. But they don't look at the long-term effects I've seen some research to follow the minimum-wage word to go up to $15 an hour. The with this employer for 300,000 N. Carolinians again over 40% of people in North Carolina earn an hourly wage up to $15 an hour, so it would Delta helmet be how many people were impacted according to Bureau of Labor Statistics.

The median wage North Carolina is $15 and 91 so that's that's the median stuff. The average that's it shows how much of an impact $15 an hour floor would have John, what's the recommendation, then for folks who think you know we've got to figure out a way to make sure that people are lifted up, that they can earn a better, a higher wage and and be more I'm self-sufficient. What is the answer. If it's not a government mandate one of the answers I think would be to make sure the people are learning soft skills of things that make them employable. Soft skills are such things as understanding just timeliness and promptness and prudishness and good service and respect for your employers think similar to a promoter and things that lead to a promotion that tell people that tell your employer that you care about the job working on education so that people are more educated and more able to handle different kinds of things come their way down appreciate you joining us. Thank you.

That's all the time we have for Carolina journal radio this week. Thanks for listening on behalf of my cohost. Okay I'm Donna Martinez.

Hope you join us again next week for more Carolina journal radio Carolina journal radio is a program of the job.

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