Carolina Journal Radio No. 735: Governor ties North Carolina to Paris climate accord

From charity to Currituck from the largest city to the smallest and from the statehouse into the schoolhouse Carolina Journal radio your weekly news magazine discussing North Carolina's most public policy events and issues welcome to Carolina Journal radio amateur coca during the next hour, Donna Martinez and I will explore some major issues affecting our state. North Carolina lawmakers continued to struggle with the best way to tax goods sold through the Internet.

Your debate about their latest proposal. Members of the UNC board of governors raise concerns recently about efforts to keep tabs on their conversations with state lawmakers to hear their objections. Legislators are looking for new ways to fight human trafficking in North Carolina will hear a proposal takes direct aim at sex trafficking and will share the story of a longtime public charter school advocate now has a more direct connection to these alternatives to traditional public schools whose topics are just ahead. But first, Donna Martinez joins us and she has the Carolina Journal headline, Pres. Donald Trump said it is a no go for the US when it comes to the Paris climate change deal, but North Carolina Gov. Roy Cooper once in fact he signed a letter saying so. Carolina Journal editor-in-chief Rick Henderson is here to talk about this story Rick, welcome back. Thank you alright so how does a governor opt into something that the president has rejected Wells caucus cutoff, but the basic thing is that the governor signed an open letter that was also cosigned by some 1200 different elected officials, business leaders, University administrators and the like say will just because the United States is not going to abide by the guidelines agreed upon by Pres. Obama Paris climate accord with the hundred and 95 other nations were going to do our best to achieve the same goals on a road that's what will remind us of what the Paris climate accord essentially says well it's basically an agreement that these nations would use the greenhouse gases by a certain percentage by a certain date certain and that that would then allegedly mitigate changes in the climate over this period of time and again all the stuff is very speculative and it also depends on the willingness of everyone who agreed to the to the record to actually have up to those goals. But of course an awful lot of constitutional experts say that the United States participation. This is tantamount to a treaty which has to be approved by the Senate and Pres. Obama never submitted to the Senate. So basically, president took truck pulled us out of an agreement that will never in the first place. A lot of folks record saying that Tim had the United States agreed to stand in as you mentioned, Pres. Obama said yes, US wants to be part of this went when he was president there saying look I would have a really negative effect on the economy, essentially putting limits on energy usage and energy is key to growth right that's right what it would also do as it would there people who said it would basically put was left of the coal industry in United States out of business it would require huge fines of natural gas which was at the we are sitting on a pretty good natural gas reserves right now, but that it would essentially give a huge bailout to the renewable energy business which is heavily subsidized and mandated as it is right now.

This would simply be major form of central planning and another aspect of the Paris climate accord is that the organization that would oversee the enforcement of this would be the United Nations so there's a sovereignty issue here. Well the breakfast debate in the UK and this notion of distant bureaucrats setting policy for local governments are somehow binding. Even though the people that live under the jurisdiction have no say so again this was almost entirely for show.

It was entirely to make greens happy and president from very wisely said I might have a part of this.

Unfortunately, Gov. Cooper so they will scale so Cooper has signed the letter what's been the reaction to doing Republicans have been pretty much furious about it just said this is crazy is not binding.

The general reaction to Pres. Trump's decision. It has been the left has been outraged. The right is said again, we did whatever agreed this to begin with any formal, enforceable way. So he simply got us out of the deal that we should of been involved in the beginning, and this is to generate money for the Democratic Party votes for governor's party in the forthcoming election, whenever that may be, and to to basically you rile the troops if you will.

Here's what I think is interesting that mankind has me scratching my head. Gov. Cooper is saying that he wants the state to adhere to the principles which would be to lower greenhouse gas emissions and to help preserve the planet and and we all know the argument there isn't the fact that he is signing the letter and thinking that this can be done without being a part of the Paris climate Accords does not make the case that let the market work. You don't need any sort of worldwide treaty to do this if you want to try to somehow control the climate. If you believe you can do that. Well that's part of what the trumpet ministrations fact that Secretary of State Rex Tiller's and Exxon Mobil CEO has said that my company was going to reach those targets anyway because it was in our interest economically through various things like's conservation measures transfers to new technology and things like that and that's basically it than what Pres. Trump that this is said is that I wouldn't negotiate a better deal that doesn't kill the economy and so yes the governor is actually making the argument that you don't need compulsion to make this happen that markets will make it happen. And so in in some ways, going back into the accord is symbolic, but the symbolism is probably not what the government tended we were talking about the politics of this, but let's talk about the actual science because that Carolina Journal has been reporting on this issue, energy issues, climate change, etc. for many years now and was interesting because when the governor signed this letter. What you did at Carolina.

Journal.com and others here. Posted at the locker room blog. I'm had to do with the 2008 story. I believe written Carolina just right. Yes, in the locker room.

Ashoka pulled up a post story from 2008, which are associate editor time David Bass talked to some folks who said that if even you, North Carolina would have absent North Carolina's participation in any kind of global climate deal will have no impact on global temperatures. In fact, they basically said of the US economy shut down completely that the major greenhouse gas emitters like China and India would overwhelm that contribution to to carbon emissions within a matter of months and so what we do at the state level here is ineffectual. Other than the fact that implementing regulations like this that are mandates and that are not market driven, increase the cost of energy make it more difficult for consumers to get the goods and services they want in a timely manner and have an kill economic growth and that's exactly the sort of thing you don't want to do unless you want to feel virtuous about your treatment of the planet and that the data was coming from a nonpartisan research group in that story back from 2008. Regardless, Rick. It does make a really effective political argument you think you're going to hearing about this is the election next election season rolls around, will you we will will will. Here are the two contrary visions of what this app. What this all means you will be hearing the fact that North Carolina needs to go green. It needs to do things to reduce greenhouse gas emissions because that's important for saving the acclimating on the other side you will hear that that doesn't really make any difference as far as global temperatures are concerned, that's what really matters is not what the climate is in North Carolina because was going to have a climate is not you were not walled off some else that happens also that these measures is to the extent that they are imposed by government mandate are things that hurt economic growth and employment. And the way that you get cleaner as you get richer than the other degree of wealth is green and that the stifling the development in the formation of capital something is bad for the planet bad for the environment as well as baffled people and not to mention higher electricity bills which I find really counterintuitive. The folks who want to do this but on this command-and-control and in the process raise the price of energy people that they're going to suffer the most are the folks are living on the margins.

That's the most aggressive tax you can impose anything that forces the rights of energy prices higher than the through market forces.

So again, Gov. Roy Cooper has signed on to this letter and some other governors and other officials have done saying that to even though Pres. Donald Trump's said the US will not be part of the Paris climate change accords that the governor wants North Carolina to adhere to the principles you can read all about it at Carolina. Journal.com, including that story from 2008 talks about the science and North Carolina's role we been talking with Rick Henderson as editor-in-chief (manager thank you this much more Carolina Journal radio to come in just a moment government plays a key role in your life affecting your paycheck the way you educate your kids the way you do business.

How can you tell if government is doing a good job making the right choices. Spending tax dollars wisely. Carolina Journal.com tackles those questions every day.

The John Locke foundation publishes Carolina Journal imprint each month and on the web each day at Carolina. Journal.com you'll find exclusive investigative reports on topics. No one else is covering what else a rundown of the best new stories, editorials and opinion columns in North Carolina. John Hood's daily Journal news stories and important public events@carolinajournal.tv and the voices of the newsmakers themselves at Carolina Journal radio and print on the air and on the web.

You can find the information you need@carolinajournal.com welcome back Carolina Journal radio I'm Ashoka North Carolina lawmakers continue to wrestle with the best way to collect taxes on sales made over the Internet. Court rulings have said that companies need to have some sort of connection or nexus to the state to be forced to collect taxes, state Senate bill would establish that nexus for any company with gross sales of at least $100,000, or at least 200 transactions. Republican Sen. Tommy Tucker explained the background of the bill.

This is for your Internet providers is pretty much simple stuff and I worked on we copied South Carolina's South Dakota statute, where if you have over hundred thousand in sales in over 200 transactions per year on then it is incumbent upon the Internet provider to pay the sales tax to the much of the law linked to sales tax collection dates back to a 1992 US Supreme Court ruling in a case called Google Corporation versus North Dakota Democratic Sen. Floyd McKissick asked about that cases impact on Tucker's bill. How do you see the Quill opinion being address as relates to this particular case beginning and likewise I've seen quite a bit of correspondence come to me in recent days, saying if we do passes to be litigated before becomes even the fact to be spinning thousands and thousands of dollars in litigation in the court system.

It could have success substantial adverse impacts upon North Carolina providers and other state so I'm trying to reconcile all that I've read and seen in recent weeks about that lots of things of change since 1992 do understand your concern about litigation for all testing purposes. When a decision is made by Supreme Court.

We need to have something on the books and the collectors there been other sites that have done this and volunteer collections have increased for them to his will and there are some providers people sellers are paying tax. Nouns will start over legislative staffer Cindy Avery offered additional information as to Supreme Court cases, one from 67 and the other one from 90 to the Supreme Court said that for the seller to have enough contacts with your stated essentially required a physical presence, but it that the Congress had the power to change that. So, as you know, every year there's lots of like there's usually of legislation in Congress, asking that they deal with this issue, but Congress has not dealt with it and says states have increasingly began to push that envelope, hoping to get the Supreme Court to reverse that decision and I don't disagree with you this this bill would push the limits and got beyond what Quill provided as had at least 25 other states. This DCS even goes a little bit farther than naming the fact that if you have a certain amount of sales in the state or gross sales in the state, either by the number of transactions of the dollar amount that you're going to be considered having enough presence in this state because as you know, now onto to get around the sales tax laws. A lot of people will just provide an mobilephone application platform you can be in a physical store but yet go to some at an order the product and because that whoever facilitated the cell that is in from North Carolina.

There's no sales tax so it's created a system in which your brick-and-mortar stores are collecting and others are not. This would even go a bit farther to say that if you are a marketplace provider and you facilitate the sales by making a platform, a form available to transact it asking to be considered a sale subject to the states tax as well.

I don't know what the cost would be. I don't know if someone would choose to take North Carolina to court if it enacted, this law but I think it is safe to say that that is all Supreme Court cases have creative ways that people creatively get around the collection of the sales tax laws of the state you're listening to highlights from a recent legislative debate about Internet sales tax collection Sen. Floyd McKissick continue to raise concerns at this point in time, assuming we were to move forward.

I'm assuming that litigation would likely be inevitable. I mean is any costs been permanent as to what we would spend if we were trying to defend this case we end up taking all the way to Supreme Court when obviously leaves the Atty. Gen.'s office, and you know is no great cost to us is that for the time spent in house counsel.

But if we use outside counsel, which I assume we might want to use or it might be decided we would use and that has significant implications along with the timelines and and likewise I do get concerned not just about the litigious nature of this bill and concern about sales taxes at a loss statement. I'm just not sure what cool decision in place today. Why don't we just wait for some other state to get this issue before the Supreme Court. Rather, North Carolina taken the lead in doing Sen. Tommy Tucker responded. I don't know if I can give you the comfort level about expenditures on litigation. I do concur with the lawyers are very rare, expensive. We have the law has looked for us all.

The Atty. Gen. has looked at this, there is an assumption that there will probably litigation, and the Atty. Gen. will probably represent us in that litigation, but there 25 other states on hold will just be 26. Right now the don't know depends on who chooses to follow lawsuit with will be forced to move forward or not, but at least we have some sort of precedent set in the statement whereby officials overturned or should Congress change in will be in a position to collect the stocks Republican Sen. Jerry Tillman says Carolina could be subjected to legal challenges from another source. If the state takes no action instead of the word about a lawsuit in the future.

I'm worried about losses from brick-and-mortar businesses who have to charge sales taxes collected and remitted in these Internet companies getting away with no sales tax charged.

I think I'd be filing a lawsuit and found one of these brick-and-mortar business.

You put me in an unfair business advantage when one pays the sales collection charges and buys in the other window you can make your products cheaper if you don't have to collect the cells that I think this is a fairness issue and I'd rather do it right and worry about a lawsuit down the road we don't get plenty lawsuit. Republican Sen. Warren Daniel asked the legislative staffer Cindy Avery.

If this change could affect people paying income tax in North Carolina. Currently the practice for income tax for individuals is that individuals estimate how much they paid for out-of-state purchases, and then that somehow calculated onto your return and you just submit the tax based on an estimate. If this is gonna require all online retailers who have a certain threshold to collect the root remit the tax. How will that interact with the current practice of the taxpayer estimating what they person keeps up with their Internet sales and realizes that sales tax is been collected on all of them than they could just put zero on that farm.

If this bill were to pass her Congress was to enact legislation that applied the sales tax required anybody to complete the transaction to collect and remitted then there would be no need for that use tax on the Democrat. McKissick also had a question about existing sales tax rule today. If you are offering an item for sale over the Internet. In this particular provider has a brick-and-mortar presence in North Carolina or some other substantial presence, North Carolina. Sales taxes already paid. Is that not correct.

If it is that brick-and-mortar that's offering at that as I understand it. Sometimes they'll offer it through 1/3 party said then it's not technically offering it for sale as 1/3 party facilitating and offering it for sale.

If that third party didn't have to curb the physical presence then they would have alleged that they don't have the responsibility to collect and remit. Sometimes those lines get very blurry. You been listening to highlights from the Gen. assembly's ongoing debate about the best way for North Carolina to collect taxes on Internet sales Carolina journal radio. Are you looking to make North Carolina more free the John Mott foundation is in here are three things you can do today to help us make it happen. First, know the facts visit John Mott data work for data analysis, interviews, and more and read Carolina journal.com to learn what government is doing with your money.

Second, influence the debate invest in the John Locke foundation's work with a tax-deductible donation you can get it done in lessthan92@johnlocke.org and third make North Carolina more free by sharing the message of freedom.

It's easy when you visit John Mott.org. Click on shareable's download past messages to freedom. Dear friends, print the messages and mail them, or if your savvy computer user share the message of freedom on Facebook and Twitter know the facts influence the debate and share the message three things you can do today to help us make North Carolina more free. Get started today@johnlocke.org North Carolina is changing not just day-to-day but outward to our minute to minute, 2nd to 2nd, how can you keep up with the changes, especially the ones that affect you, your family, your home, your job, make the John Locke foundation and Carolina journal part of your social media diet on Facebook like the John Locke foundation like Carolina. Journal follow us on Twitter at John lock in the sea and at Carolina journal news, insights and analysis you'll find nowhere else. Thanks to the experts at the John Locke foundation and thanks to the first-class investigative reporting of Carolina journal. Don't wait for the morning newspaper.

Don't wait for the evening news if it's happening now it's happening here the John Locke foundation and Carolina journal. Have you covered with up to the second information like us on Facebook the John Locke foundation and Carolina journal follow us on Twitter at John Locke NC and at Carolina journal did you know you can now advance freedom and free markets just by shopping with Amazon it's true online shopping is now a great way to support the John Locke foundation just shot using the Amazon smile program and designate the work foundation to receive a portion of your purchase amount that's right you shop and Amazon donates money to ask the John Locke foundation is how it works long time to smile.amazon.com Amazon smile. It's the same Amazon you know same products same prices is much better. Amazon donates .5% of the price of your eligible purchases to pass the John Locke foundation.

Be sure to designate the Locke foundation is a nonprofit, you want to support.

It's that easy. So now not only will you enjoy what you buy will also support freedom. Don't forget log on to smile.amazon.com today by something nice and help defend freedom.

Support the John Locke foundation look at that Carolina journal Radio One interactions among the UNC system's board of governors University's top staffers and the general assembly generated debate during a recent board of governors meeting. It started with a proposal to force board members to report their meetings with lawmakers number Marty Cota's worked to kill that proposal concern is making sure that we continue to cultivate a positive relationship with the Johnson including open dialogue five concerns about the risk of this this one sentence, stifling free speech as well. I'm also concerned that it's unenforceable and I think it sets up maybe a bad tone for the transition of the board of governors. The idea also prompted a comment from board member Bill Webb. I could not believe that someone had proposed that we seek permission or obtain the permission of the chair and a committee for us to speak to our legislature or chairman Lou Bissett stepped in to clarify the proposed rule then had an exchange with web service. Embers of the Gov. board.

Gov. shall advise the chair of the board and the chair of the committee on public affairs of the substance of their communications and interactions with members of the general assembly concerning University fair so there were there was nothing about giving permission.

I apologize for miss characterizing but I still would've had the same objection and would have thought it entirely inappropriate. Webb followed up with concerns about top university staffers lobbying about a bill to give the University board its own staff is my understanding that the general administration staff has been lobbing the legislature about whatever without consulting us.

I understand from Sunder Curtis that there's been extensive lobbying against the provision I talked to represent her frilly about that. We often know when they are taking positions that uniquely affect the board.

We have no idea. Board member Tom Goolsby of former State Sen. shared Webb's concern as we move forward with the board's policies. Of course I would expect the president to go over and speak with the Gen. assembly about anything within the board's policy within the approval of the governing board of the University system. Under North Carolina law certainly been some legislation for us to have staff members and for anyone to be arguing against that without some consultation with the board of governors deeply concerns me. If indeed that's occurring, but in regards to legislative policy and what the present or any of the GA members do.

Of course I would expect that Mr. chairman to be in keeping with our legislative priorities. What this board of governors has approved. Not that we have people going over arguing about whatever they would like to you been listening to highlights from a recent UNC Board of Governors discussion of the ties between the board top university staffers and the general assembly more Carolina journal radio. Are you tired of fake news.

Well you won't find it here at Carolina journal. We don't make things happen and we don't presume or assign motives. There's no simpler way to put it then that were proud to say that honest, factual, rigorous journalism is the Carolina journal way I reporting team is focused on accountability in government and policymaking. No matter which political party is in power, and regardless of the person taken to task in the story, Carolina journal where the holding to the truth and to transparency. Unlike fake news lies, innuendo, questionable sourcing all meant to create controversy not inform the debate. So the next time you're confronted with fake news one onto Carolina journal.com or pick up the latest print edition you'll find compelling news reporting from a team that knows what it means to be real journalists committed to truth Carolina journal. You can count on us for the facts. Well, Québec, Carolina journal Radio One coca Carolina lawmakers are pursuing new ways to fight human sex trafficking during a recent news conference, they highlighted the case of trafficking survivor Joy Anderson.

I'm a survivor of human trafficking. I was brought to Charlotte by my traffickers group meeting a group of girls all around the country. Anytime there is big events or anything. We were being sex trafficked accident.

Even though the term sex trafficking when I was enslaved. I just thought this was just my life.

My so dark and evil lifestyle is so scary and it's there for a way out and three years ago I was in a hotel and I remember thinking to myself this is all I was born for this. When I was made for what I have to do and I would rather die or somebody help me. So in my heart and my mind. I went to the bathroom in the hotel and just cried out to God and I said that if you hear me I need out in two days later and the FBI did a big skiing in Charlotte and I was one of the ladies that got rescued and they've helped set the slaves free.

And I want that for every victim. That's being forced to do this. I want them to be out to so I know that they need help crying out to wake County Republican representative Nelson dollar is one of the state legislators working on the sex trafficking issue there so many people who were still trapped and truly is a power relationship and many if not most of these young women who are crafting this don't feel there's any way for them to get out of minutes. It's just it's it's a horrible circle, and particularly when you when you lose hope you not think a long time ago we you know you wouldn't think North Carolina would be have to deal with these kinds of issues, but unfortunately this is an issue that's on our doorstep and it is an issue that we have to deal with and we in the general assembly of colleagues here a number of other allied groups want to see what we can do and what can work to end the scourge of human trafficking sex trafficking here North Carolina and hopefully be the start of of push nationally and really worldwide in this practice because it's an inhumane practice. It's it should happen anywhere on this globe in the 21st century, and it certainly should not be something that we should have to to be dealing with here in modern country such as United States, but we are and we need to take this threat and this problem very seriously.

Another way County Republican Chris Malone is also leading the latest legislative fight against human sex trafficking, human trafficking with her to hear word already used as a form of slavery that can be found throughout the country and forth right here North Carolina. The perpetrators use power, control and violence controlled his victims in many different forms. Malone says this is the type of issue lawmakers should address that's where your forces were supposed to be doing.

This is why we get elected. We see things as we spoke earlier today a meeting for 120 out of nine, 10 million people and when these kind of things are brought forward source.

It is our job. It is our duty to stand up and do something that we think makes a difference.

We have to get serious about human trafficking folks North Tronic and lady ever by standing up for the trafficking victims protection act we are fighting for most portable North Carolina is helping victims get on their feet get the services they need and become whole again and an incredibly trauma effort incredibly traumatic experience where standing up for a neighbor's children although she just will need someone to interview Mecklenburg County Republican Bill Brawley is leading the push on the human trafficking bill.

What we intend to do with this bill is to generate data on what's really on the ground and also proof of concept to see what works and also identify the problems that we will have there will be a second phase in our second set of goals is to expand this program or a successor program statewide to look at what we can do for penalties for those that perpetrate this evil and legal rehabilitation for those that have been victimized and we also want to expand to the other types of human trafficking that are in North Carolina, like many of the things that we've taken on whether it's regular former taxes. It's not one bill solutions. It's going to take time were going to have to watch and learn and adjust and continue to address this is a huge industry worldwide hundred $60 billion as an entertainment venue. For example, this if you took World Cup soccer English Premier league NFL NBA major league baseball Formula One and NASCAR combine less than half of this there are women who are forced to perform sex for money against their will and in this state. There are boyfriends and husbands and fathers, even of dollars that are paying for the services these women are providing fooling themselves into thinking this is a consensual lack it's not. It's right every day in North Carolina women are being ripe for money and we want to make it stop. Lawmakers are considering a pilot program costing about $50 million over two years probably offered more details.

We are looking at the possibility of 300 women. The first year and 600. The second was to face number that we use.

I have heard estimates of his many as 16,000 people being trafficked in Mecklenburg County alone, but using several sources of statistics and doing comparative analysis. I think I would estimate there probably 7500 prostitutes and the Charlotte Metro area alone if half of them were being trafficked and we managed to get 10% of them out. That would be 350 right there. We think, based on the most what we think of statistics in which we have the most confident about 1% of the women get out we could bring that number North Carolina up to 3% with this program.

During the trial truth.

We don't know that we do know is there are instances of and concern would be that if a woman tries to get out and we can't help her, and she goes back she becomes a cautionary tale that scares everyone else that's Mecklenburg County representative Bill Brawley is discussing the latest legislative effort to fight human sex trafficking in North Carolina, will return with more Carolina radio about if you love freedom we got great news to share with you now. You can find the latest news, views, and research from conservative groups all across the state.

All in one place North Carolina conservative.com one-stop shopping for North Carolina's freedom movement North Carolina conservative.com. You'll find links to John Locke foundation blogs on the days news Carolina journal.com reporting and quick takes Carolina Journal radio interviews TV interviews featuring CJ reporters and Locke foundation analyst plus opinion pieces and reports on higher education.

All of that from the Pope Center for higher education policy commentary and polling data from the same tax Institute and news and views from the North Carolina family policy Council. That's right, all of that, all in one place North Carolina conservative.com that's North Carolina spelled out conservative.com Carolina conservative.com.

Log on today. Welcome back to Carolina Journal radio Donna Martinez more than 160 public charter schools are now educating 90,000 kids in North Carolina recently, the state Board of Education approved a 14 charter applications. These are schools that are set to open in 2018. Now among us 14 is the plan proposed by her next guests who just happens to be a frequent guest here at Carolina Journal radio course were talking about Dr. Terry stoops is vice president for research. Also, director of education studies, the John Locke foundation Terry welcome back. Thank you. First of all, congratulations, thank you Carolina charter Academy will open in Fuquay free nine 2018 and so we were really happy to be able to get approval from the state Board of Education and begin our planning year. Tell us about the curriculum and what you plan to focus on in and bring to kids as an option sure the school is going to be kindergarten to sixth grade. So focusing on elementary and early middle school grades and the curriculum is going to be core knowledge, and Singapore math so core knowledge is not common core say that right about core knowledge is a devout was developed by a professor from the University of Virginia who argued the kids needed to know some very basic facts about the world before they can start learning about more complex events in and things like that. So it is basically a curriculum that builds year after year making sure that students have the basic facts about our world, whether being geography, history, science or language arts, and Singapore math is been around for a while now, and it's a way of providing students a conceptual way of understanding math is very successful obviously to Houston Singapore which is the highest test scores of any nation in mathematics, so were really excited to be able to partner with team CFA, a nonprofit organization that helps charter schools like ours get off the ground. It sounds Terry is if you're focusing on the basics but also rigor absolutely one of the places where charter schools. Some charter schools forget is that while it's great to be free of all the regulations that a traditional public school has to face with that come certain responsibilities and certainly academic rigor is one of them were in a very unique position Carolina charter Academy being in Fuquay Farina weight County, which is in wake County, but is not what you would envision his weight County were growing very quickly. But there is a large role. Components of the town itself plus charter school students can cross county lines so it's likely that we're going to have students from adjoining counties.

So when I just couldn't draw from weight County will be drawn from Harnett County from Johnston County and maybe even further away.

So were serving the needs of the region, not just town here in wake County. Terry, of course, MS director of education studies for the Locke foundation. That means that you are a regular guest here on the program we talk about education policy all the time and I wanted to talk to you about this. Not just because it's such a an incredible personal accomplishment for you to have gotten approval for Carolina charter Academy, but to talk about the process and the broader discussion you've told us in the past that it's really really detailed and cumbersome for folks to try to put together a charter school application and that that can actually prevent a lot of people who have good ideas from participating in the process so spell what was it like put this thing together will have my wife was really the one individual that would get everyone together in the it starts with getting the board establishing a nonprofit board of people that share a vision about what the school could be.

And honestly, we assembled our first board and then disbanded because there was no consensus on the board of what the school should be who it should serve folk on a curriculum, it should use so we were sort of discourage their first award talk about two years ago is when this process started. And so we got some new individuals involved. We had a shared vision and we look for some partner that we can. That would give us some support along the way and that was team CFA for us when it came to the application. The application itself was 63 pages along with 125 pages of appendix worries, so it is an enormous amount of work to get the application together because you have to describe every aspect of the school you have to talk about everything from operations to curricula to teachers and administrators.

What kind of salaries are to be provided. I mean every aspect of the school has to be detailed in that application. That application along with $1000 application fee goes to the charter school advisory board and the advisory board goes through those applications with a fine tooth comb. They find every little mistake, every little inconsistency and charter schools have an opportunity to respond to what they find in that initial examination of the application. In fact, if you want to go forward. You have to respond to their questions and them give them satisfactory answers. That's right. So once we give them all those answers on paper then you have to go before the board for the first initial interview and that initial interview if they believe that you have everything in place and that you have a solid board goes on, they will grant you to the full interview. So basically there are two interviews with the charter school advisory board. Not all schools advance to the interview stages. Some schools don't advance to the second interview stage. I can tell you that standing in front of the charter school advisory board where the fire questions off to members of the board that must be answered.

Oh within the within about an hour is very difficult. The cross-examination that they provide charter school applicants is probably second to none. Because these are all charter school operators. They understand what makes a success successful charter school and so when they're asking you questions and want to make sure that the applicant which was myself, my wife, and the members of the board have a good plan in place and have leadership in place, that's gonna make the school successful. It sounds very complex and not for the faint of heart. But here's what I think is really fascinating. You said early on that initially you disbanded the group of people because you couldn't agree on things end up Terry really ensuring that you had a very fine specific focus and an agreement on exactly what the path forward was going to be for the school. Yeah, I think, was actually a good thing that we were able to figure out exactly which way we want to go for the school who we want to serve where we would locate and our board is made up of parents and parents have very different ideas about what they want to school to be not only that they want to school for their own children and sometimes what they want for their children is not what an entire school should be focused on so that was one the initial difficulties in one of the things about charter school boards is that they represent people from every sector, public sector, the private sector or nonprofit sector we have for two teachers on our board. We have a college professor, we have a an individual who has a tutoring company. So a great cross-section of folks on our board and although we don't always agree no Borge ever agrees on everything. I think that the effort that we've made to ensure the Carolina charter Academy is successful is really encouraging and now the fun begins planning here leading up to our opening in 2018 and it's called Carolina charter Academy and lastly Terry, I'm just give us a sense across North Carolina are we seeing charters in every county of the state or their pockets where they are very very popular in other pockets where they just haven't developed it to the definitely popular around our urban cores of Mecklenburg County in wake County we could use a lot more charter schools in some of our rural and disadvantaged communities in the northeastern part of the state been talking with Dr. Terry stoops. He is vice president for research, director of education studies for the John Lott foundation.

Thank you Terry thinking that's all the time we have for the program this week.

Thank you for listening on behalf of my cohost Mitch. Okay I'm Donna Martinez. Join us again next week for another edition of Carolina Journal radio Carolina Journal radio is a program of the John Locke foundation to learn more about the John Locke donations that support programs like Carolina Journal radio send email to development John lock Don or call 18661665534636 Journal radio nation airline is maintained. All opinions expressed on this program nearly formation about Michelle or other foundation three airline sponsored Carolina radio again