Carolina Journal Radio No. 778: General Assembly to tackle important education issues in May

From charity to Currituck from the largest city to the smallest and from the statehouse into the schoolhouse Carolina Journal radio your weekly news magazine discussing North Carolina's most public policy events and issues welcome to Carolina Journal radio why Muskoka during the next hour, Donna Martinez and I will explore some major issues affecting our state more than one year into Donald Trump's term in office. It's fitting to discuss his disruptive presidency you hear from the North Carolina State University professor who uses that label for Trump's administration.

State lawmakers have concerns about mental health issues in county jails across North Carolina.

You learn why and what they hope to do about history books often tell us about the role of the medieval Jewish moneylender and seized a professor joy just to explain how that role is based more on myth than fact and will document the military's ongoing concerns about the Amazon wind farm in eastern North Carolina. Those topics are just ahead. First, Donna Martinez joins us with the Carolina Journal headline in May the North Carolina Gen. assembly will be back in session and education issues are once again expected to be front and center for variety of reasons. This time around. Dr. Terry stoops is the John Locke foundation's vice president for research. The director of education studies.

He's here to take a look at what we might expect when lawmakers return Terry welcome back to the show.

Thank you. We had a lot of issues via safety on school campuses for obvious reasons.

I'm instead of happened in our country over the past couple of months is safety going to be addressed by lawmakers absolutely and really the question is, as they explore these issues in an interim committee out which way will they go.

Will there be a move to try to arm teachers.

I think that's very unlikely. I think the most likely outcome that will see is that they'll decide to put more money into school resource officers. These are basically police officers that serve full-time in a school, their arms and they are trained to be able to deal with the difficult situations ranging from small infractions of student misbehavior to do real serious problems where there's an actual threat to the school if Mark Johnson, Superintendent of Public instruction. Gov. Roy Cooper both agree that there needs to be more money for school resource officers. I think working to see a move in that direction.

Some of the other opportunities to provide different types of ways to secure school such as ID cards or metal detectors. I think that's very unlikely that states could move in that direction.

Those would be more local issues with with a knot in terms of construction of schools and security in the individual campuses would not be local school boards.

Anyway, that's absolutely right. Although school boards are expressing difficulties having the funds available for these sorts of measures which is why the state would probably more likely to step in and say word and provide additional support for staff and maybe some other measures because localities are having such a difficult time dealing with some of the capital pressures on capital expenditures.

That is, creating school buildings that are safe or creating say entrances that are more secure than they currently have. We've also been hearing some interesting discussion about the size of North Carolina's public school districts. We know that Mecklenburg County and wake County are humongous and think some of the biggest and in the country and there some parents who believe that damn school officials them. Even though there are motives would would be certainly noble simply are out of touch with parents and kids because things are so huge, we can see that discussed I think we will see it discussed. I'm not sure that there will be legislation proposed, but for so I'm really glad the legislature is actually taking this up as an issue because it really is the case that we have districts that are so large that they have difficulty being able to provide the very basic types of services for students in an economical way. You get a certain economy of scale depending on how large of a school district is and you can get some economic benefits from that. But these districts are so large you have diseconomies of scale, which means it's actually more expensive to provide some services transportation is a good example to students who are in these districts.

So the question is whether they are too large and whether the state or local government have a role in being able to look at different ways of configuring the school district to make it more efficient.

Because really what we want do is we want to maximize student achievement and if there are structures in place, including the size of school district is preventing that from happening, then maybe there is a legitimate role for the state or local government to come in and to take some sort of action in making for the district is a manageable size like you brought up transportation because I know a few years ago, particularly in wake County. I think this is happened in other counties as well. There was a big hubbub over the amount of time the kids are spending on school buses.

Some of them being picked up, especially during the winter time it's pitch black outside and parents are saying there's gotta be a better way is transportation. Maybe one of those some hot button issues that will get people to say this really affects families. We need to take a look at the size issue. It deftly will be in the wake in the Charlotte Mecklenburg that discussion, though interestingly enough is died down.

Now the gas prices have gone down when gas prices were higher and the amount of money that it took to fuel the bus was increasing significantly. Then you heard a very serious discussion about the cost of transportation.

We still have instances where the kids are picked up very early to the commute from their house or the bus stop to a school is 45 minutes to an hour and that we need to consider whether there is a detrimental effect on student achievement when kids are spending an hour and 1/2 two hours a day on the bus, rather than being able to go to a school that's closer to their home and provides more opportunities for parent interaction at the school to attend. We also now have some lawmakers who are interested in really taking a look at kind of a broader issue and that is how we actually fund education in North Carolina. David meeting about that they have, and they've had very productive meetings about really, how should we fund North Carolina look schools and that includes charter schools as well and so are there better ways to do it. Are there other models in other states that could be adopted here in North Carolina were modified to make it a more transparent bearer system to the schools that receive money from the state. I don't think were to see legislation necessarily advanced during the short session, but I think most certainly we will see legislation in advance for long session that comes in January. There may be slight modifications to the way that the current funding system works.

Based on these discussions. So while were not missing overhaul of the way we fund public schools in North Carolina. We may see some tweaks during the short session that will move us closer to a different sort of model a more transparent and accountable and fair model of funding. Students that will come in a proposal next January. Some people might be thinking well that's easy, let's just say okay out right now were giving you this amount of money and use it for this and what's the big deal about changing that this gets really complex. You've written some things that are really you have to read two or three times, not because of anything about what you've written, but because it is so involved how the funding system works yeah right now there are 37 pots of state funding that we try to put money into and then allocated to the districts that have flexibility to be able to move the money around that when you look at the model. Some of these other funding methods you see that some school districts big winners. Some are big losers and so you have to deal with the fact that if you have school districts that would be losing money under an alternative funding model then you lose the support of the legislators that are in those areas and you may find it completely impossible to pass an alternative means that you have to find some way to cushion the blow if there were significant changes to the funding that would flow to these specific schools.

I think the idea is to create a funding system that provides just about the current level of funding that the schools receive now, but in a more transparent way so we can look at a school that he students and know exactly how much we are spending on that student because one of the dirty secrets of North Carolina public school finance is that while we can estimate how much a much we spend as a state per students. We don't know how much we spent per student at individual schools so we know that the district X spends eight or $9000 a kid. But we look at schools in that district and we cannot determine how much per student. We spend at that district. If we provide an alternative funding model.

Maybe that would be possible and we can hold schools more accountable rather than districts. Lastly, Terry.

Are you expecting any issues about school choice or public charter schools to come up in the legislature.

II don't know that working to see much in the way of school choice legislation. What we will see. In addition to the the things mentioned earlier are the three biggest areas.

Next, each page each page pay. We always hear about teacher pay increases I think it's very likely that we'll see some sort of move toward an increase in teacher pay and there might be small tweaks to our current choice offerings but I don't really see there being any large-scale change. We been talking to Dr. Terry stoops. He is the John Mark foundation's vice president for research and read all of Terry's work at John Mark.Orton, Carolina journal.com Mr. David is much more Carolina journal radio to come in among government plays a key role in your life affecting your paycheck the way you educate your kids the way you do business. How can you tell if government is doing a good job making the right choices. Spending tax dollars wisely. Carolina journal.com tackles those questions every day. The John Locke foundation publishes Carolina journal in print each month and on the web each day@carolinajournal.com you'll find exclusive investigative reports on topics. No one else is covering what else a rundown of the best new stories, editorials and opinion columns in North Carolina. John Hood's daily Journal news stories and important public events@carolinajournal.tv and the voices of the newsmakers themselves at Carolina journal radio and print on the air and on the web. You can find the information you need@carolinajournal.com welcome back Carolina journal radio I Michiko got no one really knew what to expect when American voters sent Donald Trump to the White House.

But now these log more than a year in office. We could step back and assess how he and his administration are performing our next guest is analyzed Trump's first year. Andrew Taylor is a political science professor at North Carolina State University. Thanks for joining us again. Thanks very much so. In a recent presentation for the John Locke foundation you discussed this as the disruptive residency. What you mean by that I mean disruptive in any sort of meaning of the word that you can think of. Just go through the dictionary and look at all the synonyms and measures can be taken both positively and negatively of courses. It's wild it's unruly. It's antithetical to the status quo is troublesome is disorderly, you name it. I think we may not when we took to talk about the drum residency being disruptive is very very different from any presidency that we can't we can think of at least in the in the moat near a lot of people as Donald Trump wanted office were pretty scared about what would what we could expect after we've seen them in action for year are there still reasons to be fearful of the drop administration or do we see a little bit more about a pattern that's become predictable well unpredictability is become what's been predictable. Of course I think where perhaps more genuine concerns of people are regardless of where they sit on the political spectrum are necessary to do with substantive policy matters and oversee the house been a tremendous amount of change with regards to policy on the domestic side we see a lot of the regulation we had the big tax cut on the phone.

The foreign-policy side we have changed in immigration and trade policy. I would have a different sort of approach to national security. It's not that so much. I think that the people who jet have genuine concerns worried about is more in the soda style or all the administrative management approach of of of Trump and there's a sort of basic concern, which is really on the longest concern and that is that the that that this sort of instability in the administration were not quite sure about his direction and then there's a perhaps a more assertive that might be genuinely anonymous approach, which is to worry a little bit about what we effects off in dealing with other countries, particularly possible enemies, and particularly talking about matters like nuclear arms and national security.

Start at and tweeting impulsively and coding. Kim John Noonan in North Korea is not a good strategy is not so. I think some in places where people may have genuinely deep concerns about what's going on. Some commentators have contrasted between Donald Trump. The persona of the larger-than-life person and what he's been up to, and his administration, which they see as more more or less, kind of in line with what a Republican presidential ministration would look like. Whoever's the Republican president. Do you see that contrast or as the truck persona found its way into the administration as well. I don't know whether the administration is is conventional conventional Republican administration is as perhaps a premise of the question I would lead us to believe is a pretty eclectic bunch of people. They are Republicans for the most part, but they been sort of drawing together is almost like the bar install. As you know, there is this week to us in extent some administrations off but they know the the obvious candidates that you would have if we had another Bush presidency. All we had a dull presidency or we had a McCain presidency, they would be reaching from the established benches in the Republican ranks particular on the foreign-policy side where Trump is really because he doesn't know a lot of people in politics and the Republican foreign policy establishment doesn't really want much to do with him where he's had to reached into the military to use of general's rotten civilian appointments so I think I don't think it's a particularly natural Republican administration. But having said that, I think there are a lot of steady hands that he realized that there only there because it's Trump, not because it's a Republican president, but you have these sort of calming, stabilizing effects on the president in the immediate and it is immediate stuff around in the White House.I think that the take issue with the premise the question. Two ways that the cumulative effect is that there some stabilizing, some stabilizing people.

We are chatting with Andrew Taylor who is a professor put science at North Carolina State University, a number the people who were among that really hardline base of support for Donald Trump really wanted him to go to Washington DC kick things around, knock out the status quo. Do you think those folks are happy about the way things are going her with a look at Donald Trump would say your you're not doing enough to drain the swamp using his term will announce with a sort of positive side of disruption right hence and I think that there's a part of all of us that would like to see some kind of change right and thought that I Trump is an agent of change and therefore maybe this will work out disruption to a certain extent, is good. They might not ever be able to be placed and may be unrealistic expectations, and to some extent trumpets fit those. Maybe it's his own fault that draining the swamp changing the establishment bringing it to his nieces just not plausible and that the most effective kind of change in our system of separated powers and checks and balances in federalism most effectual change is actually that that can be gradual and sustained rather than not that it's quick and so maybe he's not going to replace them, but maybe it is. If we look back on for implausibly I is of a Trump presidency from from the position of the future will look back and say you know what their walls sort of good change that and he did sort of drain the swamp but it was a very slow draining rather than a rapid one. Those people might actually sit be surprised. Looking back from the future and an end by the nature of the change we're speaking now little bit more than a year into the presidency. What you could be watching for very closely in your number two will stylistically will see whether you know this kind of frenetic crazy year that we've had the Trump sort of chose a little bit uses the twitter account a little less frequently does things makes decisions that are more conventional perhaps create some stability in the star and that that that's been turning over tremendously with regards to policies. You know he's got the new budget out there is an infrastructure proposal.

This is the big item is focusing on now. Where does that go blow some of the fruits of some of the other things that have been going on in the administration and the in the past year. For example, the renegotiation of NAFTA and other issues having to do a foreign policy were relationships with countries like China is approach to the Iran nuclear deal is this all going and we can see some changes in that in the next year, so will be looking at that, with regards to substantive policy and then and then whether will have greater stability and more normalcy when it comes to Trump style of governance will as this disruptive Trump presidency chugs its way through year number two we know one person is going to be watching very closely in assessing and analyzing it is Dr. Andrew Taylor Prof. of political science at North Carolina State University. Thanks much for going back to love more North Carolina journal radio in just about if you love freedom we got great news to share with you now. You can find the latest news, views, and research from conservative groups across North Carolina all in one place North Carolina conservative.com it's one stop shopping for North Carolina's freedom movement@northcarolinaconservative.com. You'll find links to John Locke foundation blogs on the days news Carol manager.com reporting and quick takes Carolina journal radio interviews TV interviews featuring CJ reporters and let foundation analysts, opinion pieces and reports on higher education from the James Dean Martin Center for academic renewal, commentary and polling data from the scimitar's Institute and news and views from the North Carolina family policy Council. That's right, all in one place North Carolina conservative.com that's North Carolina spelled out conservative.com North Carolina conservative.com. Try it today. North Carolina is changing not just day-to-day but outward to our minute to minute and 2nd to 2nd, how can you keep up with the changes, especially the ones that affect you, your family, your home, your job, make the John Locke foundation and Carolina journal part of your social media diet on Facebook like the John Locke foundation like Carolina.

Journal follow us on Twitter at John Locke in the sea and at Carolina journal news, insights and analysis you'll find nowhere else. Thanks to the experts at the John Locke foundation and thanks to the first-class investigative reporting of Carolina journal. Don't wait for the morning newspaper. Don't wait for the evening news if it's happening now it's happening here the John Locke foundation and Carolina journal.

Have you covered with up to the second information like us on Facebook the John Locke foundation and Carolina journal follow us on Twitter at John Locke in the sea and at Carolina journal did you know you can now advance freedom and free markets just by shopping with Amazon it's true online shopping is now a great way to support the John Locke foundation just shot using the Amazon smile program and designate the work foundation to receive a portion of your purchase amount that's right you shop and Amazon donates money to last the John Locke foundation. So here's how it works.

Log on to smile.amazon.com Amazon smile. It's the same Amazon you know same products same prices is much better. Amazon donates .5% of the price of your eligible purchases to the John Locke foundation to try to be sure to designate the Locke foundation is a nonprofit, you want to support. It's that easy. So now not only will you enjoy what you buy will also support freedom.

Don't forget log on to smile.amazon.com today by something nice and help defend freedom.

Support the John Locke foundation. Welcome back to Carolina journal radio I Muskoka state lawmakers have questions about mental health services for inmates in county jails during a recent meeting, Sen. Joyce Kravitz questioned Eddie Caldwell of the North Carolina sheriffs Association number four stresses administration, dispensing and control of prescription and nonprescription medications. My concern is that this is not happening on a regular basis. I don't know how erratic it is. But I know there was a young woman in my district who died and she was pregnant as a result of not receiving prescribed medication and she suffered withdrawal and then a heart attack.

Do you know is this is this policy is it is it supposed to be followed. That ended in and allow seem to understand the costs that cost us a lot of money so that should never happen that we should lose someone because they work able to get the medication that they had been prescribed. You know if this is some procedure that is just grayer that it wasn't adhered to.

Or do you know how often that happens. Can you give me any idea. We certainly have not done any survey or detailed data analysis but in my this material are rare, and certainly one is one too many sheriffs don't ever want that to happen, but that's unfortunate.

When these type situations do, but I do not. I have not heard any complaints or any concerns about inmates not giving their prescriptions. Lawmakers also wonder about potential problems linked to costs Sen. Ralph highs offered his home Kelly Mitchell as an example, the entire expenditure in a year on all of housing treating healthcare. Everything else comes to about $300,000 for the County. It's not hard to see how one serious medical condition that happened brochure could wind up costing more than you spent last year on your entire population.

There are two companies that are providing about two thirds of the clearing jails across the studies I think are some economies of scale. There these companies are using telemedicine so you don't actually have to have Dr. come into the jail or take the inmate out there some economies there whether or not other savings and other consolidation could be put in the place or not.

I don't know certainly anything that would save the county money and provide additional and better more viable care inmates fierce and serviceable listening to highlights from a recent legislative discussion of mental health services in North Carolina's county jails German North Carolina journal radio real influence. You either have it or you don't and at the John Locke foundation.

We do, and that's not bluster in a private survey of more than 250 North Carolina political insiders 87% said we influence them either a great deal a good amount. So while others talk and complain. We get to work providing research solutions and help our team analyzes the pressing issues of the day jobs, healthcare, education, and more.

We look for effective ways to give you more freedom, more options, more control. Our goal is to transform North Carolina into a growing, thriving economic powerhouse that is the envy of every other state are researchers actually help policymakers make decisions that ensure you keep more of what you earn.

Expand your choice of schools for your kids. Widen your job opportunities and improve your access to doctors. The recipe for stability and a bright future. The John Locke foundation were dedicated to making North Carolina first and freedom were dedicated to you. Welcome back to Carolina journal radio I Muskoka if you've ever heard the story that Jews in medieval Europe played a critical role as moneylenders take note. It's a story based on myth rather than fact. Our next guest is written a book titled the myth of the medieval Jewish moneylender Julie Mell is associate professor of history at North Carolina State University. Thanks for joining us. Thank you so much for helping me so before we get into the facts of this case. First of all remind people what's the what's the story or the myth around medieval Jews in Europe, writes that the myth is that Jews were merchants in the early Middle Ages when other medieval folks were not commercially active and that in the high Middle Ages. So that's after 1000 that Jews were pushed into you money lending pushed and pulled into money lending because the church laws on usury. I forbade Christians from take lending money on interest said that this ad and the EM this this is the method in a nutshell, there couple of other aspects to it as well and that because the Jews provided than this economic role for Europe.

They really helped European economic development in the 12th and 13th centuries, which laid the groundwork institutional framework for the later commercial expansion in the early modern and modern periods and along with that. The second set part of this method is that because they provided credit at a time when the church outlawed. Usery, they suffered an anti-somatic backlash for that activity. So even while they were serving Europe's needs they suffered for it. So this is the myth your your book addresses this and tells us it is a myth so well to what you find rates. I found that there a lot of complicated reasons for why we have told the story that go back to the 19th century back to an argument over Jewish emancipation in Europe in the latter 19th century into assumptions.

Also, from the 19th century about what medieval European economy looks like.

The assumption was that there were Europe was principally an agrarian economy of barter. The assumption was that Jews were commercialized to commercialized people well before other European nations.

What I found is that the Jewish population was more or less similar to the Christian urban population and as many economic historians in the 20th century have shown credits was widely used in Europe throughout the 13th century by all parties, including the church, even with their usury laws they needed a way to get those tides to roam the ties collected by by the Pope to Rome and they employed Italian merchants to do so. And of course interest was made along the way I founded in particular and studying that the Jewish population that most of the Jewish population was too poor to have been involved in professional moneylending at all, so that the kind of stereotypes about Jews in money and in commerce are really just that stereotypes ones that have stayed with us for a long long time.

That is the voice of Julie Mell associate Prof. of history at NC State University and the author of the book the myth of the medieval Jewish moneylender as you were describing the myth.

Some of it sound as you said just what stereotypes the people would have about Jewish people. Some parts of which would would be negative, but some parts of it were positive. This idea that they played this critical role in the economy. How did this all come together. You mentioned in the 19th century. Why did this myth come to be rates. Sale then what I call the math or or what's is still today. The standard historical narrative that you'd find in Jewish history textbooks shares a lot of the same presumptions that anti-Semitic stereotypes do, so there's a shared common ground where they differ is in the way in which they value that presumed Jewish activity of lending so prominent liberal economic perspective, one that's Phila somatic that is that's sympathetic to the Jewish population.

This world, this economic function of the Jews is perceived as something beneficial to Europe if he start from an anti-somatic perspective and one that is not liberal economic but let's say like the fascists parties in the 20th century Europe. The Nazis included they would see this as a detrimental to achieve the European economy. So having all of this information now. The facts of the case as you spell them out.

How was it helpful moving forward. To know that this was a story.

This was embedded centuries after the fact and is really a myth, rather than based on fact right. Well let me back up just a little bit if I may, and finish answering your question about the 19th century and stare as a Jewish emancipation was beginning to be dependent debated in Germany and when a stock market crash happened in the 1870s. Some of the liberal economic economists of the day. Political economists such as Wilhelm Rusher bloats arguments in favor of Jewish emancipation and they use this is that they are key example Seo at these arguments and become part then at the general academic discourse on economic development they get picked up by Max Weber Werner some Bart and and transmitted in two whole generations of sociologists and historians, why is it important to you recognize this is a method to change.

It is important because those stereotypes they anti-Semitic stereotypes are still with us and I think only by acknowledging the updated false quality of the myth, whether it's told in a Phila somatic vein or an anti-somatic name. Are we really going to be able to change our understanding not only of Jewish history, but of European history as well and I have a second Valium to this work that then takes up that question and says well how does this revision of Jewish history change our understanding of European history and of European society and I look at things like the Usery debates and how we actually understand what the church is doing are those Christian intellectuals were doing when they were writing about and legislate on economic practice, we have barely scratched the surface. If you'd like to learn more about the facts and not just the myth, the title of the book is the myth of the medieval Jewish moneylender, the author of the book is Julie Mell associate Prof. of history at North Carolina State University.

Thanks much for joining us think you moron Carolina journal radio commitment to truth and transparency in government. That is the mission of Carolina journal and we are proud to deliver and now proud to tell you the North Carolina press Association has honored to members of our team with awards reporting and writing, that's right, we really do deliver award-winning journalism we shine the light on government spending, reveal the truth about boondoggles and dig deep into programs paid for with your tax money. We keep you in the know in a way other media outlets don't in our reach and influence are growing all of our outlets. We reach more than 1 million N. Carolinians each month so make sure you're one of them. Our monthly print edition arrives in your mailbox every month. Our online daily news site Carolina Journal.com has fresh stories, opinion pieces, and more. The award-winning Carolina journal team I reporters make government accountable to you.

Call 1866 JL FINFO for your free subscription, welcome back to Carolina journal radio Donna Martinez. It sits near Elizabeth City and eastern North Carolina, a $400 million Amazon windfarm consists of more than 100 turbines that generate electricity course from wind. But after more than a year of operation. Questions remain over the farm's potential interference with the U.S. Navy's radar facility questions that have also been raised by leaders of the North Carolina Gen. assembly, Carolina journal has reported extensively on the windfarm with the latest update, published just days ago@carolinajournal.com Rick Anderson is editor-in-chief.

He joins us to talk about the latest installment.

Welcome back. Thank you. The windfarm itself. It's called the Amazon windfarm does that mean Amazon owns this high Amazon basically purchased the rights to claim electricity is generated from the facility there. So yes, Amazon is the is technically over this. Is there any taxpayer involvement in this Rick Gore any potential for taxpayers to bear the burdens of the costs or anything like that. Well part of it depends on how the energy itself is sold to the power grid. There were some there were some incentives involved other federal tax incentives that were involved in the process to begin with, existed for 20 years. Availability the people get tax write offs if they built renewable energy facilities. Also, there were some state taxes and those involved in this process with those who have since expired but the big question is if the if the say government says that Duke energy or whoever has to provide a certain amount of power from wind forces than connecting to the grid would be a cost that's generally speaking, talking about this project in particular know because Amazon is claiming that all the energy from this is going to be used to offset the energy that it uses at one of its data centers up in Virginia now, that's it says this is kind of bogus is, like the climate offsets that Al Gore used to do with the talk about that. It didn't matter if he was flying around the world because his house was using less electricity. So, therefore, to offset one another. That is all part of the whole green energy moves yeah really is resources and that we we we we sort of jokingly said, this is Amazon about the naming rights to the powers coming from us from this wind facility but really it's unclear if any of this. How much of any of this facilities powers actually getting to grip. It was noted generates a certain amount because that's reported by US government, but whether it's getting to the grid what price really like that weasel it's been in operation for more than a year now Rick that the U.S. Navy has been questioning this facility for some time, even before this is actually up up and running.

What's the Navy's concerning the concerns it operates a huge radar array up in the Hampton Roads area of Virginia and that radar those those radar dishes are pointed toward Central and South America, especially waterways. What they're trying to do is intercept a contraband coming from Central and South America drug runners, drug runners, largely with other forms of contraband could be involved to potential he could be even your weapons and stuff like that. You just don't know what's there.

But the wind itself that the vibration from the wind.

If it's within a certain radius or range of those radar dishes can actually interfere with the operations of the writer of the babies were concerned about that since before this is someone facility.

What up that's fascinating to me because one would presume that damn when the federal government, particularly the military becomes involved in something that their viewpoint would take precedence over someone else's viewpoint, but this is now operating. So what gives their the Obama business rations. Defense Department basically decided that it wanted to get heavily involved in the nubile energy using the military's military resources to art to go green or if you will. So because the military owns large parcels of property and can quite often might have areas that are unoccupied, that have no other use and could be the houses that could house solar farms or windfarms or things like that. But what the department of defense basically said was that if there's a possibility for a use of renewable energy even if it interferes with military operations and in some cases, the military, she's going to have to suck it up and let this facility go on to make the military green.

Do we know if there really is an interference with the Navy's radar or is this just speculative all this there is so what we were fairly certain that there something going on because basically the way that the baby specked out this this what the facility is called the related relocatable over the horizon radar facility at Roth is the is the acronym for it when they were respecting out raw through the basically said that anything that was within approximately a radius of about of something like about 40, 30 to 40 miles could possibly interfere with it now. The Amazon facilities 22 miles from Roth or so that there some edges of the door so this fairly certain it's within that radius and in fact there was testimony was taken Capitol Hill about this one. The person who testified against this at the time was John Kelly who is now president from Chief of Staff formally was head of Homeland security, but at the time he actually was in charge of the Southern command, which is the military operation that defends this portion of the world from looking south from any sort of forms. The foreign invasion resort of the national security issues, and so Gen. Kelly said this is a problem and we should stop it. But though the Obama administration would not rule would relent so fast forward into the trump administration and down. This facility is close enough windfarms close enough to the roster as you described it, that North Carolina's legislative leaders are expressing concern about this, and they've actually went to the trump administration yes to more the speaker the house, Phil Berger said it wrote the ministration asking to see if there wasn't some way to nothing else overrule the Obama ministration's earlier directive.

All this, the Navy itself is coming out with its own study sometime this spring with an update on potential interference and will see what happens from there. There are members the general someone who like this thing is a big important race going on in the in that area involving incumbent Bob Steinberg is running for the house originally for the state Senate and an he's a big supporter renewable energy so he he. But he's got some opposition.

This gives her troubles, so that this could be an interesting thing see how that plays out.

And as you mentioned an elected official certainly in that area.

Knowing about this project and taking positions one way or another. We've got a County Commissioner and Currituck County right in that area who has big-time concerns. He's actually former Navy pilot right exactly in the that's a he's a Paul Beaumont and he toward the one for the Amazon one form recently basically said he wants to shut down once he wants it to be taken care of entirely, but he can't do that because is not jurisdiction. So what he would like to see is the County commission could pick up some sort of a resolution which would change the local zoning regulations so that windfarms would not be an allowable use of souls looking for a variation so that's that's what they're trying to do their other counties have attempted to do that and they can't do it after the fact of some land is already been promised where is been some sort of a purposeful attempt for someone to locate a wind farm somewhere you can't resend that. But counties can proactively say were not going to allow windfarms social reforms Leslie Ulrich Sampson concerned about this or they completely out of this discussion, it was on his been very quiet about this whole thing, but not not been communicatively continued to say that they are green and that they're using this electricity to offset what's going on at their data center. They actually were.

But every time the wind was blowing enough, the data center was shut down some courses.

She's pretty much bogus corporate PR if you will, for we been talking with Rick Anderson is editor-in-chief. Thank you.that's all the time we have for the show this week for listening on behalf of my cohost Mitch. Okay Donna Martinez please join us again next week for another edition of Carolina Journal radio Carolina Journal radio is a program of the John Locke to learn more about the John Locke foundation including donations support programs like Carolina Journal radio sending email to development John Locke done call 66 GLM info 166-553-4636 Carolina Journal radio foundation airline is maintained. Carolina system. All opinions expressed on this program nearly more information about Michelle or other programs and services in the John life foundation is John Lott.

Three. Many may not wonder radio across North Carolina and are sponsored Carolina radio listening again