Carolina Journal Radio No. 834: Assessing the impact of the May 1 teacher walkout

From Cherokee to current attack from the largest city to the smallest and from the statehouse into the schoolhouse Carolina Journal radio your weekly news magazine discussing North Carolina's most public policy events and issues welcome to Carolina Journal radio I'm Ashoka during the next hour, Donna Martinez and I will explore some major issues affecting our state. One of Donald Trump's key selling points as a candidate was his track record for making business deals and NC State University expert looks into how that skill translates into Trump's work in the White House, North Carolina's senior US Sen. has a front row seat for Russian efforts to disrupt American society. He shared what he knows about Russian misdeeds. During a recent speech at Duke. The statehouses unveiled its budget plan. You'll learn key details, some state lawmakers want to make $400 available for every public school teacher. The money would pay for classroom supplies you learn why is speaking of education Donna Martinez joins us with more on that topic. She has the Carolina Journal headline union backed education activist for the second year and left their North Carolina classrooms and headed to Raleigh for the May 1, protest and rally the group said that education is in crisis in North Carolina and that something must be done there something turned out to be a $6 billion list of demands our next guest, Dr. Terry stoops of the John Locke foundation says that the activists are correct.

North Carolina does have an education crisis but he points out that the activists have failed to recognize exactly what that crisis is.

He says it's with student achievement after stoops joins us now to talk about that Terry walked back to the show.

Thank you. This is the second year that we've seen thousands of people come to Raleigh to protest and rally you were there, what was your impression. Well, the crowd seem to be smaller than they were last year and that was the initial thought was that as many as 50,000 would show up and that's what so some people were saying, and in advance of the March that there would be that many but on really didn't turn out to be that many I would save the pride pride was more than 5000 there in attendance, which is still I think fairly impressive, but definitely not more than showed up last year and there seem to be some really strong political overtones to a lot of the speakers and certainly the list of demands that were released by the North Carolina Association of educators before the before the March, so there seem to be so a lot of stronger political overtones and there were last year and the and I think you know their list of demands is a good evidence of talk about that listed included a number of demands for additional pay additional resources. Even the expansion of Medicaid in North Carolina, leaving some folks including you kind of wondering when it comes to Medicaid. For example how that relates to children whatsoever. What you make of the list of 6 billion+ that there demanding yeah I summed it up as more money, more manpower, more Medicaid and there were some things on here that you know they might have found some common ground with Republican legislators, for example having more school psychologists and school social workers.

I think is a concern by many Republicans looking at to be some mental health assistance that schools could need. But a lot of these proposals don't have strong support by Republicans were dead on arrival. Medicaid expansion is a good example of that and it's hard to imagine how Medicaid expansion would help kids because they going into this.

There were a lot of people a lot of teachers say oh we need Medicaid expansion because her health.

There can be health help kids or help the kids. Parents, but the Medicaid expansion population between 78 and 82% of that expansion population are childless adults. These are neither children nor people that have children, so it's hard to imagine that there would be any direct relationship between Medicaid expansion and being able to help children directly in the classroom. Then there were other things on the list of demands such as increasing cost of living adjustment for retirees that would have an enormous consequences not only for the budget this year in budgets in the future because that alone would add a $2.5 billion unfunded liability to our retirement system so there were I thought many things on this list of demands of whirly weren't well thought-out and it really wasn't in the end designed to try to find common ground Republican legislators. It was just like the March itself a political maneuver. Terry, you wrote in several different pieces coming up to this rally that you agree essentially that there is a crisis in public education in North Carolina, but you have said, look at we need to be aware of what's happening with student achievement and in some cases, the lack of student achievement and your kind scratching your head saying he would be willing to work together with the activists who were protesting along with others who have a different point of view around that common goal of trying to lift kids at first it was striking to me that there were so few mentions about student achievement through this entire process leading up to the March during the March after the March, but the reality is in the numbers of student achievement numbers that we get from the state every year and last year barely half of the elementary and middle school students in North Carolina are proficient in math and reading. That's really the central issue here is that thousands, even millions of students are not proficient in math and reading and when you look at student subgroups because that includes everyone. But when you look at African-American children. When you look at Hispanic children and especially African-American males which have some of the lowest levels of achievement in North Carolina. It's even lower than half so less than half of students in those subcategories are proficient in math and reading. That should be everyone's concern that should be our focus as a state rather than looking at ways to just throw more money at the districts we should be looking at ways to strategically use the money that's allocated to increase student achievement. Terry, the numbers that you have cited are truly alarming when you think about what that portends for those girls and boys who aren't achieving now what does that mean for them four years from now.

10 years from now when they're adults trying to make their way in the world and support themselves have a family, lead a productive, happy life. What is that mean if we don't address this will means were losing a generation frankly and this is the really sad part is that look beyond the numbers of students that would go to get higher education and think about the fact that those that are graduating don't have the basic skills to be successful in the workforce at entry-level jobs especially these low income kids minority kids in counties that don't have a whole lot of opportunities they are graduating facing few job opportunities virtually no opportunity to get higher education, or any sort of post secondary training.

This is a lost generation and that should be everyone's concern and I haven't heard one mention of that through all the speakers from Mark Jewell, the president of the North Carolina Association of educators to Rev. William Barber poor People's campaign. I haven't heard one mention of student achievement through all those discussions and all those speeches during the rally. One of the curiosities about the day that was chosen for this rally on Wednesday mid week a teaching day was that there were counties in North Carolina where kids have been out of school because of storms, hurricanes on several different counties particularly devastated by that and you wrote that people should be concerned about losing an instruction day and that that is consequential people may not realize how consequential that is help us understand well first of all, it's important to look at the calendar itself and to realize that a lot of these school districts had spring break the week before the March so you had kids out of school for a week. They came back for couple days and then they were off again and then they came back to school for two other days that probably warns productive as they needed to be. Every day is important for student achievement and every day needs to be better than the day before, and unfortunately, there were those that participated in the March that called off that day under the idea that all. It's just one day, and it shouldn't be just thought of this one day every day is important, especially during the instructional year is testing comes up and the students come back from spring break. It was a critical day and the teacher should've found another day to have their make their voices heard. We've been talking with Dr. Terry stoops. He is the John Locke foundation's vice president for research and also the director of education studies. Same with this much more Carolina journal radio to come in just a moment government plays a key role in your life affecting your paycheck the way you educate your kids the way you do business.

How can you tell if government is doing a good job making the right choices. Spending tax dollars wisely. Carolina journal.com tackles those questions every day. The John Locke foundation publishes Carolina journal in print each month and on the web each day@carolinajournal.com you'll find exclusive investigative reports on topics. No one else is covering what else a rundown of the best new stories, editorials and opinion columns in North Carolina. John Hood's daily Journal news stories and important public events@carolinajournal.tv and the voices of the newsmakers themselves at Carolina journal radio in print on the air and on the web. You can find the information you need@carolinajournal.com welcome back to Carolina journal radio I Mitch coca one of Donald Trump's selling points as a presidential candidate was his business experience, especially his skill at making deals. He had written in 1987 bestseller called the art of the deal was Trump's business savvy translated into the political arena next guest discuss that topic recently with the John Locke foundation Andrew Taylor is a political scientist at North Carolina State University, also a columnist for Carolina journal.

Welcome back to the program.

Thanks I Mitch. So I just mentioned part of the deal was the before he became president. One of the things that Donald Trump was was best known for you.

What were interested in looking at how the ideas presented that book translate into Donald Trump as president yeah scientist I read it that you have a look back down their noses at see a lot of mocha down the nose. Is there anything Trump but particularly this book is a very simply don't think it's relevant to understanding what he would be like as president, but the book was a very important book and in American business literature.

It was a bestseller for a year in the 1990s, it transformed Trump from a into an international, national and international personality and business icon. It contains and it a lot of stuff that's not really relevant to the present idea presidential leadership. There are a few strategies in there and how to make a deal that I thought wow this is really interesting and could be applied to him being president and thinking about presidential leadership as a deal that you have to make with a variety of different kinds of people. Some people who were kind of like you and want to be partners like for example the Congressional Republican leadership other people.

He may be adversaries like congressional Democrats all like foreign certain foreign leaders, so we thought this would be an interesting exercise to look at those strategies and try to see how they've played out while Trump is been president.

What are some of the things that you saw in the art of the deal as you were reading it and said oh yes this really does have a definite way to apply it to the presidential style with this and let it in chapter 2. There's 11 winning strategies from coast them and some of them as a said in ocelots were John particularly relevant to presidential leadership, but I picked out and possibly arbitrarily, but they seem to present themselves to me is relevant to presidential leadership. So things such as being able to use leverage to pressure the person that you're dealing with to use of wide variety of different strategies to be unpredictable to try to put your opponent off because you've done something that wasn't expected to be 02 to think big to draw moon shawl or hit a home run rather than place mobile to use a sporting metaphor.

There were five of the strategies that I was able to glean from that. There's 11 that I wanted to use on and apply to Trump is present. We are chatting with Andrew Taylor, political scientist at North Carolina State University. One of the things that you also did after looking at the book was say okay will. How does this play out in the types of things that Pres. Trump is actually had to do and you looked at the normal lawmaking process.

Also, the budget process and his dealings with foreign leaders and found some very different things, yes, are there if I thought three different types of dealmaking scenarios the president to put into one's making laws regular legislative process in which you deal with Congress and that the interesting thing is is if there is no deal. Nothing really happens. The status quo continues the second process was the budget which is very interesting because the budget isn't a regular piece of legislation because as we all know we will live through one of these very recently.

If budget bills on positive spending goes on parts the government shuts down which is a YM which you can place additional pressure on the participants in the deal, and I thought with on budgets that should help Trump the way he likes to make deals. According to the art of the deal, the way he likes the negotiating strategies he uses the budget making process should be should be amenable to more amenable to strategies than the regular lawmaking process and then as you said makes this the third one she's dealing with foreign leaders and their shootdown on.

I argue that should be most likely to be trimmed from to be successful. Most consistent with his winning strategies as expended out of the deal because he can really so to be unpredictable with this this this is what is the outcome of no deal. We don't know the president can pull things out of his back pocket. He can make threats he can make faints. He can be unpredictable in a way that you cannot be if you president in the domestic arena in dealing with the Congress and so are you going to hypothesize that scenario number three would be much better, much more suited to Trump's when strategies looking at those strategies and what we have seen for presidents in the recent past. Are these very different ways than we are accustomed to seeing our president operate. Yeah, I think I think so and I think this is has to do obviously with with Trump trumps background, he is unique really amongst mode and presidency only president with a background that is remotely like kids out completely outside of politics in the postwar period is Eisenhower Nichols Eisenhower and Trump are very different people and have had very different kinds of experiences, so coming out of the business world. He's obviously going to approach the presidency and presidential leadership in a very different why than anybody with that we can think of that he hasn't been trained in the way that George W. Bush and George H. W. A been trying all evening. Barack Obama didn't have a particularly lengthy political resume but was much more of a conventional politician than Donald Trump's we have a sense of how people are responding to the style we do we know yet whether people say you know I kinda like having a president who acts this way or or pulsing with scope back to what we have before. You know, I think. I think a lot of people's views a Trump course colored not by that they don't sort of sit down and assess Trump and so you know what I don't really like him but that was a pretty smart move.

He pulled all I do like him, but he really kinda messed up that strategically that their views are Trump so polarized. The vast majority of the public that they don't even visit this issue intellectually that they that they don't even contemplate it, we might be helped in the future when we can look back.

So the more objectively and analyze Trump and be out of pool back some of the liars in and be out in evaluating that way but now I people just don't do that though this is such a heavily polarized environment that the people I don't seem to be in a position to be out of value) present from in the brief time that we have left for those who have to negotiate with Donald Trump, would they be well served reading part of the deal and and try to glean some of what they might get from the other side that negotiation possibly. I mean II think the olive trumps presidential deal is that very similar to the audit of the deal in his winning 11 winning strategies that he talked about and in the book so you can see the you have got two years of term presidency now. I think that tells you is much as is the book. And an end to that extent. I feel pleased with the project because that's all gold is nectar to will and reason why think out of the deal is important because it it does instruct a lot of of what this presidency is been like so they don't have to read the book but they certainly have to study.

Don't drop Andrew Taylor political scientist at North Carolina State University and also a columnist for Carolina journal. Thanks much for joining us will have more on Carolina journal radio just a moment if you love freedom we got great news to share with you now. You can find the latest news, views, and research from conservative groups across North Carolina all in one place North Carolina conservative.com it's one stop shopping. North Carolina's freedom movement@northcarolinaconservative.com. You'll find links to John Locke foundation blogs on the days news Carolina journal.com reporting and quick takes Carolina journal radio interviews TV interviews featuring CJ reporters and let foundation analysts, opinion pieces and reports on higher education from the James Dean Martin Center for academic renewal, commentary and polling data from the scimitar's Institute and news and views from the North Carolina family policy Council.

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What Russia did was they tried to create societal chaos running up to an election. Russia use less than $100,000 to attack the American society thing that we need to get through the media's goals and to the American people is really what about an election. This was about 1960s Soviet mentality that if it's bad for America.

It's good for them and they used 21st-century tools to do it in their used our own First Amendment protection to hide behind. So is Russia.

America's number one foreign policy threat today Russia is a huge concern on any given day. North Korea might be in front of a given day around might be in front of that in a given that China might be in from, but from a standpoint of a relentless effort of Russia certainly deploys all the tools they've got against the United States to really affect the discourse of this country and I just have to ask you to go back to 2016 for second, there were a number of things that I can highlight that the Russians the thing that sticks out most of my mind slipped.

They ran a rally for black lives matter and white supremacists on the same day same time same location. The only thing the public saw was the news coverage of this confrontation between two groups. Russia didn't create the gap between black lives matter in which firms they took the existing structure in the United States of differences that we had and they just highlighted so they didn't make anything up. They use the differences we have societally in this country and they magnified him to where the media saw this as a newsworthy story and you got understand that it was not just Facebook, Twitter, YouTube, Google it was the use of RTM Sputnik German broadcast outlets that reinforce this message that then made it legitimate for American broadcasters to carry the story in the same way. That's North Carolina Sen. Richard Burr speaking at Duke University. He's discussing Russia's threat to American society will return with more Carolina journal radio in a moment where doubling down on freedom at Carolina journal radio were proud to bring you stories that impact your life and your wallet.

And now get twice as much freedom when you also listen to our podcast headlock available on iTunes and@johnlocke.org/podcast headlock is a little bit different. It's a no holds barred discussion that challenges softheaded ideas from the left and the right, like Carolina journal radio headlock is smart and timely but with headlock you'll hear more about the culture wars get some more humor as well. We guarantee great information and a good time double down the best, listen to Carolina journal radio each week and listen to headlock to remember, you can listen to head back@johnlocke.org/podcast or subscriber download each week iTunes Carolina journal radio and headlock just what you need to stay informed and stay entertained both brought to you in the name of freedom by the John Locke foundation. Welcome back to Carolina journal radio why Michiko got state lawmakers are considering a new way to help schoolteachers pay for classroom supplies North Carolina state Sen. Andy Wells recently unveiled the details. A lot of taxpayers are spending 6 1/2 billion dollars K-12 education that's our number two teacher, Southeast. Every year part of that money around $50 million since the local school board, pay for supplies, but in the past that $50 million hasn't grown straight classroom thinkers said the money was paid to local school boards, which turned out to be a mistake because all too often local bureaucrats decided not to spend money school where they spend it on the answer that question isn't it varies from school district school district, but the short answer is bureaucrats use the money to pay for other things to do list and left teachers paying for their own classrooms.

When I learned that money appropriated pay for school class was a big spindle. I why don't we send the money strike the teachers under our Senate bill every licensed teacher in North Carolina will receive $400 to pay and bureaucrats will no longer be able to take that and spend it on something else. The Senate proposal is one support from state Superintendent of Public instruction Mark Johnson during my time teaching. I vividly remember not having enough copy paper was a high school teacher and I rely heavily on the copy machine and the coffee paper ever putting in a request time and time again with my school for copy paper, but never getting enough to fill the needs of my classroom. Instead, I relied on money for my own pocket as well as the generosity of organizations such as classroom Central and other organizations like educator warehouse where donated supplies can be given to teachers that is the story of almost 100,000 teachers across North Carolina for high school teachers. It might be copy paper for kindergarten teachers. It might be construction paper, glue sticks and markers no matter the supplies many teachers in our state must reach into their own pockets to acquire what their students need the state Superintendent Johnson since the Senate plan fits with the goal of giving more tools to classroom teachers finding a way for teachers to have more direct control over funding for classroom supplies has been a top priority.

We started that in earnest last year when we helped deliver $200 for every kindergarten through third grade teacher to buy reading supplies read to achieve program, but we knew we could do more. We knew we had to do more. The NC classroom supplies program will out every teacher to have direct control for hundred dollars for classroom supplies in their classroom. Each teacher will be able to determine how to best spend those $400 for their classrooms needs that state Superintendent of Public instruction Mark Johnson is explaining his support for a plan to give every North Carolina schoolteacher access to $400 for school supplies first. Just as we are working so hard to personalize learning for our students. We must acknowledge that every teacher has different individual needs for their classrooms. Giving teachers the maximum control over classroom supply funds is the ultimate local control. Teachers can be nimble and they can use these funds to buy what they need when they need it. If we truly want to treat teachers as professionals. If we truly want to put our money where our trust is, then let's show teachers we trust them to make the right decisions for their classrooms. There's another good reason to support the plan as an elected leader is apparent as a child in our public school system and as a taxpayer.

This program will provide greater transparency into where classroom supply funding is going a topic as important as classroom supplies deserves all transparency we can offer this program will allow educators and policymakers to get real-time insight on the purchasing habits of teachers to know what the supply needs are across all of North Carolina. That insight will help policymakers at all levels work with educators to make sure we are getting the supply funding we need for our classrooms. Johnson explains how technology makes the new program possible. This is an app called class wallet in class wallet will be an app that every teacher will be able to have access to, and if a teacher go shopping at a store such as a target, Walmart, OfficeMax, Staples, or even some local stores that will be able to put some North Carolina swords available on that list. They will be able to print out the receipt for what they purchase and take a picture of the receipt using this app and then, much like a rewards program. A fast food fast food restaurant you will be able to have all the SKUs making sure it's classroom supplies validated and the reimbursement will come to the teacher. The statehouse's chief budget writer likes the idea Republican representative Jason St. explains how information tied to the new classroom supply plan could help state budget writers using the eligible list will help us in future years know what cosponsor what where should the money go what what what is having in the classroom) in a week… Our classroom, our child's classroom was supplies are teachers making sure that they have what they need for the same time if it gives teachers to know they got a lot to do. As we all know the classroom, so it is a tool for the future. 12 may work where they spend money where where where is it that they're looking at them and to supply their classroom. Year in and year out, so they gives everyone involved better analytics better data something better understand what's happening in the classroom. The bills main sponsor Sen. Randy Wells likes the idea of having more information about classroom supply needs.

That's been part of frustration we hear back classroom supplies, but we don't know exactly where they are needed and what grades we had a session early on what what classroom teachers need more left when we start we have no data talk later tell us exactly where this lady is this tool will allow us to identify exactly where the legs are and exactly where to target funds in exactly which features the state Superintendent Mark Johnson expects a few startup pickups since the program still makes sense. This is a major undertaking. No state the size North Carolina has tried to do something like this.

We know this is important for teachers. We know that the communities teachers statement asking for something like this for years. It is time for us to be bold in our actions for supporting teachers in the classroom exactly were doing so I fully expect that when this rules out the start of the school year.

We will run across issues, but a few issues are absolutely worth the benefit that this will bring teachers across the state you been listening to highlights of a news conference promoting a new classroom supply program for North Carolina. It will give every public school teacher in the state access to $400 for supplies will return with North Carolina journal reading with a moment commitment to truth and transparency in government. That is the mission of Carolina journal and we are proud to deliver and now proud to tell you the North Carolina press Association has honored to members of our team with awards for reporting and writing, that's right, we really do deliver award-winning journalism we shine the light on government spending, reveal the truth about boondoggles and dig deep into programs paid for with your tax money. We keep you in the know in a way other media outlets don't enter reach and influence are growing all of our outlets. We reach more than 1 million N. Carolinians each month so make sure you're one of them are monthly print edition arrives in your mailbox every month. Online daily news site Carolina journal.com has fresh stories, opinion pieces, and more.

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Call 1866 JL FINF04 your free subscription, welcome back to Carolina journal radio I'm Donna Martinez earlier this year, Gov. Roy Cooper proposed his budget plan for the new fiscal year, and now state budget writers are knee-deep in crafting their version of the operating budget with North Carolina house, having now unveiled its plan getting a sense of the spending priorities and what may end up taking effect on July 1. Joe Colletti is a senior fellow with the John Locke foundation.

He is analyzed both the governor's proposal and the house proposal joins us now to let us know what is in those documents. Joe welcome back Gov. Cooper's proposal first set kind of an overview of them. He is spending his taxing his priorities that the governor surprisingly did not increase income taxes or repeal any of the existing tax rates and that are in there, although he does have a tax increase.

He just doesn't call it that, with his Medicaid expansion so that was that. That's his top priority remains as top priority and it would require $200 million of state money the first year, $400 million the second year and overall he was increasing spending by $1.3 billion compared to last to the to the current year. The so one of the things that that will, as we start comparing the two budgets so is that the, the governor eliminates a state capital and infrastructure fund at the house Hassan that is in law and with that, there are some adjustments with how debt service gets calculated and so when people look at the numbers, they might see all the governor spent 25.2 was spent $25.2 billion, but because of that that that funding difference. A comparable number exactly $24.5 billion where the house is looking at 24 billion.

Okay so so he's still looking to spend a lot more than they are. But to get that comparable number is is is spending appropriations are compared to the house between 4.5… Because the governor can't just propose and say well I deem this to be. He's gotta work with state lawmakers on this and so there's some wheeling and dealing that goes on we have now seen the North Carolina house version of a proposed operating budget. So give us a sense of the houses spending taxing their priorities so the house spends less than the governor about five to about $600 million less which it may even spend less than they said in their agreement on spending that they had reached with the Senate and it announced earlier this year, so overall that's that's a relatively positive thing that there's that they're not spending as much. It still a little faster than I would feel comfortable with. But overall it's it's a in and that still leaves the Senate some room to be able to come back in and bring the spending even lower because they still didn't have to negotiate as we know that they're not going agree on every point right and you mentioned the Senate because there the other player in this so we are only partway through this whole process here trying to put together this budget. Even though the budget to take effect on July 1. So they've got another little less than a couple months here to get this all worked out.

Joe, have you seen any overlapping priorities between governor's proposal and the house proposal they agree on anything. Actually 90% hundred percent of the budget because when were talking about these changes that the house is increasing spending by $700 million.

The governor increased by 1.5 $1.3 billion, and so and were talking about a budget center 24 24 1/2 billion dollars. So there's a lot of agreement there and even in the changes that they're looking at the to want to give higher pay to teachers, especially and principles and so both program.

Both proposals have such a significant amount of much new money for teacher and and and principal salaries and compensation. Overall, the house has a smaller increase for state employees. They both fund raise the age which is the law that went into effect last year to bring 17-year-old out of the adult criminal justice system and so there's a good amount of spending to provide more district attorneys, and more court staff and more and more housing for those for those teen offenders and so there's a lot of agreement across the board on what the priorities are the biggest difference again.

Is this the Medicaid expansion that the governor wants claims is free, and that the house is not does not include in that the Senate will not and he claims it's free because there's a lot of federal money that would come down to North Carolina but North Carolina still would have a pretty heavy left for you, and any claims free because that that that lift that the state has it would be borne by hospitals with within a set with the provider tax and that provider tax is an expansion of existing taxes on that site so there's him and they both keep the Medicaid transformation intact and there's some there's a new taxes that go along with that because it's a new route realm of business for these insurance companies to take on what the state had previously paid all with tax dollars. Let's talk a little bit more about your analysis of the house version of the budget. Are there any trends or any items in the budget that you think, really either keep or put North Carolina on a positive track through the spending is still slightly less than than inflation and population, which is the general yardstick that we do to make sure that spending remains constant, adjusted for inflation per person and so that's that's a good thing. I still think it should be lower than they are starting to fund the capital from their state capital and infrastructure fund and continue to set aside savings and they should set aside more savings because we took out $750 million to deal with hurricanes last year, but still but putting aside money and that is always positive thing. I'm continuing to reduce taxes and try to do it in a prudent way and for the first two years. That is one of the interesting things in the house budget is an increase in spending through for the University system so that they can utilize their buildings through the summer.

More brings about funds more summer programs. There's got to be small set with tuition but we have these we have these facilities at all. The University campuses that sit idle for about three months a year and they're looking for ways how do we how do we increase the utilization of these that were actually and our investments. Yeah, what about trends that you are not so hot on so to speak any negative trends because I know you are someone who really thinks fiscal stewardship is key to keeping North Carolina on track and what are you seeing that maybe we should be watching really closely the second year of the budget, there are significant increases, so the salary increases that compensation increases from the first year balloon a little bit in the second year Medicaid growth in the first year become significant in the second year in tax reductions, taking it in. Actually the third year so we don't see it in the budget document that's there but that starts to kick in. Later on and so those trends but start to become worrisome that at our Wii's going to continue to spend higher and higher. While Road continue to reduce revenues and spending growth. The second year is 4% higher than it is in the first year of the budget so that kind of trend is is really concerning, especially because next year's election year and they want will likely want to add on top of that, and so that's that's where I start this season some concern into that point Joe at the next stop for this will be the North Carolina Senate that they tend to be even more fiscally conservative than the house so will be the Senate to coming up with something. It may be rains in some of those troublesome trends I expect and I hope that the and then after that they got to sit down and finally agree on a document and then there will be votes and then the governor gets to way and he'll veto and then will be still talking in July.

Joe Colletti is senior fellow with the John Locke foundation. That's all the time we have for the program this week on behalf of my cohost Mitch.

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