Carolina Journal Radio No. 853: Republicans win both N.C. special congressional elections

From chair to current tax and the largest city to the smallest and from the statehouse into the schoolhouse Carolina Journal radio your weekly news magazine discussing North Carolina's most of public policy events and issues welcome to Carolina Journal radio I Muskoka during the next hour, Donna Martinez and I will explore some major issues affecting our state. Political polarization has many negative impacts on American society. Among them, a sharp divide over support for free speech will explain some North Carolina lawmakers want to make it easier for victims of childhood sexual abuse to take predators to court you learn how that could happen.

Legislators conducted a recent debate involving advanced placement test scores at University of North Carolina system schools to learn why lawmakers split over endorsing the work of the universities board of governors have a look into the most interesting trends within the latest K-12 public school student test scores were students doing on reading, math, science, those topics are just ahead. First, Donna Martinez joins us with the Carolina Journal headline North Carolina has elected to new members of Congress, the result of two special elections to fill seats in the U.S. House, one in the third District in eastern North Carolina and one in the ninth district stretching from Mecklenburg County East all the way over to Cumberland and Bladen County's motors have now chosen Republicans to fill both of those seats dashing Democratic hopes to turn them blue so is there anything we can learn about the 2020 elections from these two races Carolina Journal has been covering both of them quite extensively. Editor-in-chief Rick Henderson joins us now. Welcome back to the show. The big one, the ninth Congressional District. That's the one that the results weren't certified in 2018. Due to ballot shenanigans. So we have the new race, national Democrats, national Republicans put tons of money into this thing and yet the Republican Dan Bishop has won that race and dashing the Democrats hopes let's write you one by we'll have all the fishing totals the time reporting this book by about two percentage points.

It looks like over Democrat Dan McCready, Dan Bishop is attorney State Sen. was a member of the statehouse before he became a state senator and is someone who ran very much as a proxy for president trump someone who would carry forward present trumps agenda someone who was who was very strong cultural conservative. He had a lot to do with the house built to legislation and so he staked out a very very solid and pretty pretty impermeable. If you will ideological position he was. He was a known quantity. Dan McCready was someone who was a little bit less known ideologically, but I think well known in the district because he was the person who lost in 2018 to Mark Harris in the original race that was then vacated. If you will let State Board of elections. He's essentially been running for this district nonstop for 27 months.

He had very very high name recognition. The district and he someone who also had a very strong financial and grassroots support on his side, so he someone who if any Democrat could win this district with driveways been held by Republicans consecutively since 1963.

If anybody could win this one Democrat he probably was the guy he could do Marine veteran entrepreneur involve the renewable energy business touted his strong faith roots and ran very moderately also did not with forces in the initial race against Rev. Mark Harris. He was asked numerous times we would vote for speaker of the house if if he had the opportunity the Democrats. One is that I won't vote for Nancy Pelosi and the question came up again again again will you vote for what only Nancy Pelosi's and he was he was playing this this this role of the moderate and it was something that that I think the Democrat will probably have to have to be competitive in that district, but nonetheless second time around. He still was not able to get past the poster trying to analyze this going forward Rick come. There are some folks who say this should be a big red flag for the Republicans because as you mentioned, this is a Republican district and Dan Bishop wanted that we think might two points. Perhaps Gissel but more than that when summer saying he should have a really ran out run away with that race and he didn't, but a solid win.

On the other hand, other people are saying hey, this just shows that the Democratic Party running a more centrist and more moderate candidate can't win because they been taken over by much more radical leftists.

What were you land on this. This is a great question is something that we may really know until 2020. Basically, because it appears that whoever wins the Democrat nomination for president is going to be somebody who's going from the left side of that party's perspective. So that's good. Obese is not going to be someone who's going to be a moderator centrist. It looks very likely that is not going to be Joe Biden who is running ahead and a lot of these polls currently still someone who's not a moderate by any stretch of the imagination. If you look at his voting record. If you look at his statements over the years is considered real moderate among Democrats, but he's not a moderate among the general political ideology ideological maps so the Democratic parties would nominate someone far to the left of present president trump was almost certain Republican Republican nominee for president, but that doesn't mean that inter-and intra-district.

Your dimensions politically will make a difference in specific race. Not all Democratic districts are governed by people who are as far left as Leslie Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren. Not all Republican districts are governed are are are represented by someone as as much of said nationals of Donald Trump is there. There are dynamics their local and the question for Democrats in places like the Knights were they think they have a chance is can someone who runs independently of the party apparatus succeed or is that message is lost because everybody's paying attention to what the cable news show saying they just simply are are have made made these these candidates essentially two-dimensional figures you mention, trump, what about his impact he made the stop in Cumberland County in Fayetteville the day before the election. The vice president my pants was also campaigning rigorously for Dan Bishop. Are they folks that are responsible for his when I think they certainly help push them over the finish line. I think that that the presence of their of the president and the vice president of vice president was making phone calls phone banks. He was actually talking about or try to get them out to vote. I think it did help and also the winner of the night of the third District. Are we talking about a few minutes. Greg Murphy appeared there as well, which is not expected and so that was something that I think did make a difference. It did reassure voters who were inclined to vote for Sen. Bishop to vote for that because thing about it was Dan Bishop only jumped into this race when it became possible when February and he has been involved with the general assembly throughout this here is a general assembly still in session right now and so he's not been able to campaign is actively someone who will say was not currently serving a public officer's money was and that's the Dan Bishop will take a backseat in the ninth congressional district and so he will be sworn and you mentioned the third District Greg Murphy, the Republican there easily wins that race that was for the seat that tab. The late Walter Jones had held for many many years.

That's why that special election was occurring. Greg Murphy goes. Congress yes. But at least 25 point when it looks like right now, and Greg Murphy was expected to win. He ran against Alan Thomas, a former mayor of Greenville.

The situation with Murphy as much as anything else.

Was it that was if the race was close, that would've been something Democrats which got some cheer from, didn't it didn't happen. Greg Murphy is a physician. He is a urologist. He's on the word of the medical school at East Carolina University can be very involved in healthcare issues and so this is somebody else I think asked for with Tom Tillis when he came to Washington to provide some ideas about state-level reforms. Greg Murphy may be able to help repel the Republicans in Washington with some more state-level local Federalist medic medical policy and other broken have to presumably run again very soon. That's right you don't shut down campaign apparatus so that their jobs were insulated because 20/20 is only a few months away on the calendar, but for now, that means that Greg Murphy and Dan Bishop will represent North Carolina in the US House of Representatives course Carolina journal covering all of these races. You can read it in the monthly print edition of Carolina Journal, which by the way, is no cost to you. You can just give us a call or go online and make sure that you get your copy each month. And of course the daily news site Carolina journal.com Rick Anderson is editor-in-chief. Stay with us much more Carolina journal radio account in just a moment tired of fake names tired of reporters with political axes to grind. What you need to be reading Carolina journal, honest, uncompromising, old-school journalism, you expect and you need even better, the monthly Carolina journal is free to subscribers sign up@carolinajournal.com you'll receive Carolina Journal newspaper in your mailbox each month.

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We hold government accountable for you will go back to Carolina journal radio I Michiko got political polarization impacts our society in many ways, among them there's a divide within the American population about protecting important, classically liberal values, including free speech rights. That was the subject of a recent speech for the John Locke foundation's Shaftesbury society. The speaker our next guest, Dr. Thomas Cushman is a visiting senior research fellow at Wake Forest University. Also a professor at Wellesley College.

Welcome to the program very much so political polarization we know is causing major changes in the United States and you say it's also affecting how people view free speech rights also. Well it's now talk about today.

My talk later on, but the polarization has to do with competition over competing values. So if you ask young people first and some college surveys about which values the would like to see more protection of the pharmacist was a fairly strong divide.

The bricks found along club Ron Jerome gender political party, race, and recent survey done of college students very good survey Gallup poll I believe is you can see the divides among the young people especially so for instance if you asked students.

The question which do you prefer to have more protection and inclusion and diversity or freedom of expression and are very strong devise on a significant percentage points. So for instance, Democrats women, African-Americans, and mostly those three particular groups tend to favor diversity, equity and inclusion which are three important values in American history. But if you look at white men who are Republicans is completely the opposite.

So you can see on college campuses lease which is where I work is very strong divide is not like they don't care about the other outages they prefer protection of one values set over another. And I do believe it's also very well very apparent in the survey data for the general American population as a sociologist fairly careful attention to that same breakdown women who are Democrats liberal Democrats white women or liberal Democrats. African-American Americans were Democrats tend to favor diversity, equity and inclusion, whereas white, male Republicans, conservatives tend to favor the defense of free speech rights and the percentage differences are quite stark and this I suspect is a change. If we look back some years ago, you would see more general support for free speech while exactly what I know I'm you know I'm starting to get up there in years, I see generational differences and I never thought for instance as a college professor, I would have to explain why frame of expression is important to young people.

I just assume we all learned that somewhere, evidently they're not really learning somewhere because they come in many of them coming with very little knowledge, very little understanding of the scope of the First Amendment or the jurisprudence about the First Amendment in the last several hundred years and so you can't assume students coming into even the most elite colleges have a strong appreciation that was just assumed by people of my generation, just in question. We were taught that and I think now in the high school systems is simply the more I think of the diversity, equity and inclusion value system, which means you shouldn't say things that: quote harm or make them feel offended or uncomfortable. And that's more in force and a high school setting is a much more disciplinary in setting so I get to college. Just keep in hearing to the same value systems and it's hard work to convince them the freedom of expression helps everybody, especially if you want diversity, equity and inclusion only way to get that is by saying why you're not included wider not being treated equally and I think that's an argument I try to make that is the voice of Dr. Thomas Cushman visiting senior research fellow at Wake Forest University also professor at Wellesley College.

You alluded to this, but I want to look back to assure you if a substantial portion of our young people or the American population at large values freedom of expression less than some of these other values. What sorts of problems does that create for our society. Well 11 claimant.

I make the first women ever make. When I talk about the right of freedom of expression is of the reasons the reason that is in the First Amendment because my views lease of the founders understood that freedom of expression. Being able to make rights, claims, or to complain about the violation of rights necessitated freedom of expression is the right, from which all other rights evolve or were articulated and you can make any other rights claims. Whether it's about equality or or progressive values. Many kinds of claims about having a right of freedom of expression.

When you time to see is people essentially not understanding the connection between the fundamental we would sandlot non-derivable right of freedom of expression, his connection to any kind of rights claim of injustice or violation of civil rights and so it has to be the starting point for for all of the rights claims. I think with some persuasion. You can persuade people of how could Martin Luther King have ever foster the civil rights movement. Without freedom of speech, and I had a very interesting African-American young man tell me when I said that.

He said well he shouldn't have to die for. And if I will. That's a pretty good response that you shouldn't have to die for expressing a right of access, but this is what this would struck me is that that it is dangerous to speak freely, and especially in a climate where there is there is hatred there is violence and not conflict so we have this divide. We we see this via survey results heavily asking that I think I thinks I think some of these things are generational that I'm already seeing some of the younger generations to come inside of the college were four years younger than students who have really push these these values seem to be prominent among the millennial veneration and we sociologist have waves of generations never to say. Time will tell but I do know if generations are generational shifts in beliefs and value systems. So for instance when anybody asked me that question. I generally tell them that if you went back to in time to Berkeley in the 1960s that site of student radicalism was included in my own field sociology took over buildings and created havoc and I want to create a revolution and then I had a professor there was teaching there is a time and so what comes after the revolution. They said well we don't always want to have the revolution, never a good idea to have a revolution back.

I know you're going presented on Amarillo, but the reason I bring up the story is that the if you look at the data later on in 1980.

If my memory serves me right over 50% of the citizens of Berkeley voted for Ronald Reagan.

So I think it's sad. I don't think it's a one-way trajectory. I don't think freedom of speech is on the way out. If you ask the whole population is about 50-50. When you break down these ethnic differences in racial differences in gender differences becomes more pronounced, but I do think of something like a pendulum swinging back and forth and that we might be enough diversity, equity and inclusion pendulum right now, side, and I think that it's my hope anyway that that that many people might see that it's really not a very pleasant state to exists in the situation we are constantly afraid to say what you think. Dr. Thomas Cushman visiting senior research fellow at Wake Forest University also professor of sociology at Wellesley College. Thanks electric fence, reverence, pleasure, beer will have North Carolina journal radio just about if you have freedom we got great news to share with you now.

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Riddell says the measure enjoys widespread support to 199 enjoys the support of the North Carolina Department of Social Services, North Carolina coalition against sexual assault, safe, child NC prevent child abuse NC NC alliance of YMCAs child advocacy centers of NC North Carolina sheriffs Association connect for faith North Carolina conference of DAs North Carolina Association of Chiefs of police. Not everyone is on board fellow Republican representative Chuck McGrady has concerns about potential unintended negative consequences. Specifically, he worries about extending the statute of limitations for legal action tied to charges of sexual abuse will revive claims that have already exceeded the statute of limitations and seriously frankly, while the intent of the bail is bring civil actions against child molesters and pedophiles and I'm all for that. Typically somebody that is accused of this has is working for a school system is working for some sort of nonprofit and when you jump in over 20 years.

Go back 20 years for something that happened. The person that you want to have to pay for this civil action is not giving up on the phase, the school system is a nonprofit representative Dennis Riddell responded to McGrady's concerns concern about who will be sued.

Why will be sued when they can be sued. You have to understand that the average age of disclosure for child sexual abuse is 5252 the age of going to 38 is nowhere near the average age it will help us pick up a few more victims and give them their day in court which they deserve and encouraging to get North Carolina back on the side of being serious about preventing child sexual abuse about helping those who've been victimized by child sexual abuse and making sure North Carolina is not a haven for safe harbor for predators you been listening to debate about measures designed to fight child sexual abuse in North Carolina will return with more Carolina journal radio in where doubling down on freedom at Carolina journal radio were proud to bring you stories that impact your life and your wallet. And now get twice as much freedom when you also listen to our podcast headlock available on iTunes and@johnlocke.org/podcast headlock is a little bit different. It's a no holds barred discussion that challenges softheaded ideas from the left and the right, like Carolina journal radio headlock is smart and timely but with headlock you'll hear more about the culture wars get some more humor as well.

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They go from 1 to 5 and three is a marginal school which for most cases is okay for our purposes in the stem disciplines like computer science, but particularly in our foundational courses, calculus, computer science, one that grade of three is is a marginal score which in reality could put students at risk of greater likelihood of not been successful. For example, in both of those courses in our department. We don't even accept our own grade of the sea in those courses in order to move forward in the program. It's not because were trying to be difficult for make life more difficult for students is actually just trying to ensure that they are successful when they go forward. I really do believe that this will have an adverse effect on many students and in many of these courses again.

This amendment is not to change the policy that is already been done is simply to remove this commendation. The in reality for folks who come from families that have a background in stem disciplines.

If if my daughter or son came to me they had a three on AP to examine calculus and they were wanting to major in engineering. I would tell them you take the course again, you don't know what you need to know in order to move forward in the discipline. That's really what was forced on several departments. It was done hastily.

It took in two weeks time departments across the state were were told that they had to make this change there.

The only reason that was given that they could do anything else was if they had clear hard evidence that this shouldn't be done. The problem was that evidence didn't exist because we've never been asked this question before Russell's amendment would stop the Gen. assembly from commending the UNC Board of Governors Republican John Fraley objected, in all due respect, I would ask you to defeat this amendment. What is in the wording of what the board of governors has done and also what is in the bill that's being considered does exactly what opposite of what representative Russell is talking about that era given each institution has the ability to go to their Board of Trustees and say if I AP grade of three is not adequate enough to provide the exception and then come back to the Board of Trustees and have that approved Republican Kelly Hastings also responded to Russell's complaint of her a lot of misstatements today, so let me give just a little bit of history so the members understand what transpired. Many of our universities were already granting credit for a score of three some of our universities were not. And so what this does is it makes it fairer for the students so that they have an expectation as to what they can expect when they apply for AP credit when they apply to college and is being determined whether they have AP credit. It's retroactive and prospective in nature. It's retroactive in the fact that the students who have or who are already in the University system can still try to get AP credit even if they started college last year the prospective nature has to do with the year of the catalog so regarding their major.

So if a student is a senior and they will go through the audit process and is determined that it won't benefit them because they have to accept a newer catalog of this year.

Of course requirements, they can opt out, but if you're a younger student of freshman or sophomore. The catalog probably has not changed that much.

You're probably going to want to opt in. It's not mandatory, and so the more Governors. They were simply trying to make the process fair. Someone shared an email from NC state that in March of this year.

NC State had already implemented the process and said that hey students, if you want to apply for AP credit for a score of three Coley advisor go through the audit process and determine if it's best for you. So this is not mandatory. This is just simply a process of trying to make it fairer for the students. Republican Larry Pittman of Cabarrus County explained why he supported the measure. I feel like what were doing back commending the board for this policy or decision is commending them for thinking outside the box example I'm talking about when I was in college I took a course in psychology and a reference to a study that was done of some architecture students and how they did after they were through school and the most successful were the ones who were sea students and the weighted explained that in the study that I read said that the a in the students focus more on what somebody else had none in regurgitating what they learned from somebody else. The sea students were more interested in being creative and doing their own designs so they were more successful. I think this is allowing a person scored a three to be able to advanced placement is akin to that. Think outside the box a little bit and realize that people are always going to meet every little checkmark that you think they automate and still be able to succeed and able to do well. As I continue studying this to me that's what this is what I think should be commended. Hastings also took aim Russell's objection to a plan to commend the board of governors. If you're questioning our duty under the Constitution legislative process is a higher authority than an administrative rule is that it's our duty here to state what our policy should be, especially when it fairer for the students who have worked really hard in an AP course and as I said it's not mandatory, so I would encourage you to defeat the amendment. Russell's amendment headed to a vote, 42, having many affirmative 64 and the negative. The amendment fails once lawmakers rejected the amendment. The house unanimously approved the bill will return with North Carolina journal radio in a moment real influence.

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Expand your choice of schools for your kids. Widen your job opportunities improve your access to doctors. The recipe for stability and a bright future for truth for freedom for the future of North Carolina. We are the John lock foundation. Welcome back to Carolina journal radio I'm Donna Martinez are North Carolina kids doing better in school. While the new state data on public school performance and student achievement finds that across all subjects and grade levels 58.8% of North Carolina students earned what's called grade level proficiency 44.5% met the higher standard called career and college ready. That's just part of the results they give us a window into school and student achievement right now in North Carolina. Dr. Terry stoops has been analyzing all of this data. He of course is the vice president for research. Also, the director of education studies for the John Locke foundation Terry welcome back. Thank you.

First of all, give us a sense of what is measured when it comes to student achievement. I know you been writing about the difference between proficiency and growth proficiency measures how well a student knows the subject matter on a in a given year on a given test and basically will tell you how many answers they got correctly on the state test and they set certain proficiency levels and the students based on how many answers they get correctly can reach those proficiency levels of growth is a little different because that compares an individual student performance in the current year compared to what how they performed on the tests the previous year and basically what the state does is they have a certain projection that they used to determine what a years worth of growth is for that child and their performance on the state test determines if they meet that growth standards so those of the two primary ways we measure student achievement in North Carolina.

There are other measures like graduation rates and and other sorts of measures that we use, but those are the two primary what was your reaction to the latest data in terms of both proficiency and growth while not much is changing, especially in reading a lot of people were focusing in on the reading scores reading proficiency scores to see if we are starting to see some benefits to North Carolina's read to achieve program.

This is a program that provides resources for teachers in elementary schools to improve reading instruction specifically in grades K through three and so the hope of many is that we would start to see some movement in test scores because of the incredible investment we've made and read to achieve and unfortunately were not seeing that in math.

It's a little tricky because there were some changes to the math test in the reporting standards used for math so we really can't compare those to previous years. Math proficiency is hovering around the 5960% range so that certainly isn't something to write home about. We would hope that our math proficiency would be better considering North Carolina traditionally has had very strong math instruction has performed very well on national assessments of math you would hope that that would be mirrored in some of the state tests that are administered every year we seem to be making progress in science, yes sciences is looking fantastic. Where do depending on the grade between seven and 8/10 kids are proficient in science and then that number continues to increase. We administer to science tests in North Carolina, one in fifth grade and one in eighth grade, which is consistent with federal requirements, so those of the two tests that we really zero in on when we look at science proficiency and students are doing very well in science. It's a real testament to the teachers that teach those subjects that they're able to raise proficiency in fifth and eighth grade science. I never did well in science. So I am in that of that data right there. So the new data that was released for the last school year also looked at school performance and gave schools. A great what we find there. Well we have a grading system in North Carolina that looks at the two factors mentioned earlier proficiency and growth. 80% of their grade is based on proficiency in 20% is based on growth and there's a lot of controversy about that were basically seeing what we would consider to be an even distribution of schools of AMB schools compared to DNS schools and most schools are in the middle sees you think of what a bell curve looks like that's basically the distribution of school performance grades in North Carolina and honestly that's one of the reasons why legislators are hesitant to get rid of the system that we have right now for determining school performance grades because it seems to distribute school performance grades in a way that makes sense.

Along that bell curve. If you make changes, we either get a lot of a schools are a lot of schools and so that's one of the reasons why they're such an imbalance in the percentages used to determine school performance is apparent in North Carolina and I'm trying to figure out if my child is getting a quote good education or not. I got to my child's personal grades, but based on all of this data, the school letter grades in the proficiency and growth levels give a parent a good sense of where their child is and whether or not they should be pleased with what's happening at their school. It's a starting point and I think that the the grading system is so much much improved compared to what we had in the past where we would label school school of progress school of distinction basically labels that didn't have a whole lot of meeting for parents.

Parents understand the school grade but it should be understood that that's a grade for the entire school and may not reflect how their individual student is doing how the grade that their student is in and that school is doing or how an individual teacher is educating the children in his or her class. So it's a good starting point.

Parent should look to see what the grade is for their entire for the entire school, but there are online tools that they can use to go look at the test scores for their individual children and ends with the these states provides a tool for them to be able to do that online or they can go into the school and look at those records for themselves. So it really is a starting point.

It was always meant to just be a starting point and may the people that object to the school grades believe it to be something that many parents use but aren't aren't using in the in the proper way. I think most parents understand that it may not be representative of their child, Terry. We know that in North Carolina where one of the leading states and in terms of providing options to parents. Parents here are demanding more options for their kids and a lot of them are choosing traditional public school classrooms, because that works for them. Other families are choosing public charter schools, virtual schools, home schools, etc. in this data did we get a sense of how public charter schools are comparing to traditional district schools. Sure, we start to get some clues about that and if you look at just growth rates you see that districts are outpacing charters as far as growth and just very slightly but charter schools as far school performance grades are outpacing districts. There are more AMB charter schools than there are AMB district schools.

On the other hand, you have more DNS charter schools compared to districts so you have some charter schools that are really outstanding and there are outpacing a lot of the district schools. Then you have some that are falling behind.

Quite frankly, of course, if those schools continue to fall behind will be closed and that's the real difference here is that is DNS schools in districts will remain open and in some cases receive more money to try to repair instruction that's obviously falling short falling short of what it should be. There's a lot of data that is been released in this new school accountability report from the state of North Carolina.

You can read all of Terry stoops analysis of this@johnlocke.org Terry, thanks for joining us reaching the time we have for the show this week. Thank you for listening on behalf of Mitch. Okay I'm Donna Martinez help you join us again next week North Carolina journal radio Carolina journal radio is a program of the John Locke foundation to learn more about the John Locke foundation donation support programs like Carolina journal radio send email to development John Locke called 66 JM 665534636 Carolina journal radio is the John line foundation airline is maintaining Carolina broadcasting system, Inc. all opinions expressed on this program are selling did not clearly reflect the opinion that the station information about the show.

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