Carolina Journal Radio No. 864: Freedom’s defenders see more N.C. victories in 2019

From Cherokee to current attack from the largest city to the smallest and from the statehouse into the schoolhouse Carolina Journal radio your weekly news magazine discussing North Carolina's most of public policy events and issues welcome to Carolina Journal radio why Michiko got during the next hour, Donna Martinez and I will explore some major issues affecting our state. We've seen major medical advances. In recent years, most of those advances involve new treatments for disease. But what about cures you learn how North Carolina could play a role in encouraging medical innovators to find more cures. It's been 10 years since the book, philanthropy, capitalism, documented links between business practices and charitable giving.

The books co-author discusses its continuing significance. You'll hear highlights from a recent public hearing featuring supporters and critics of North Carolina's current process for drawing a new congressional election map and will delve into the most pressing concerns surrounding mental health in North Carolina. Those topics are just ahead. First, Donna Martinez joins us with the Carolina Journal headline North Carolina lawmakers have gone home for the year scheduled to return in January throughout the 2019 legislative session. The John Locke foundation's outreach team led by senior VP Becky Gray has been there defending freedoms, standing proudly for opportunity by helping state leaders understand how their choices will either expand or limit opportunity for every North Carolinian that work. Of course, is been going on for 30 years here at the John Locke foundation, leading to all sorts of policy victories over those years, and in fact, throughout this one as well. Becky Gray is here to talk about to what's been happening. Becky welcome back to the show, so we are entering our 30th year here at the John Locke foundation and over the years there has really been a transformation of the state, particularly the last decade or so, so much of it grounded in research and work done here at the Locke foundation give us is that the labeling Unit issues that we focused on the things that we've identified or important core functions of government, things we focused our work on for the last 30 years have been consistent during his 30 years and were talking about reining in the growth of government lowering the tax burden rolling back regulations on businesses and individuals.

Also, better investment, smart investments in education and infrastructure in those kind of things that spanned the theme of our work for all these 30 years.

As you mention in the last decade on they have been some real reforms on that that we have championed and monikers of ice and lawmakers have listened and have a great with with many of our recommendations have taken eyes. I'm very proud in our whole team at the finish is very proud of that and so as we move through this. What were saying is, these are continuing those roots that we planted 30 years ago the seedlings that began to to blossom. 10 years ago really saying those roots go deep and grow.

Why, because these are policies that work, they work for North Carolinians on and so this session was a continuation of that a lot of the reforms that we've had over 30 years, the continuation, the strengthening of that is again growing those roots deep and wide across all of our policy issues that we work on that over the years and including this year as well at the legislature really an effort to help lawmakers understand what they can do to help North Carolinians keep more of what they are right you and that that this kind of two parts to that form you Donna one is allowing people to keep more their money and recognizing that government absolutely has a function there core functions of government that we want to make sure that they are done well, but was raining and that growth of government to function on the things the government should do and can do well and letting other things go. The other piece of that is how much money do you take in order to do that through your taxation system live in unusual situation. The session and that yet we still don't have a budget that has passed the budget that the Gen. assembly put together bipartisan support. By the way it went over to the governor continue to reign in the growth of government continue to respect taxpayers, while really I think in, in my view, providing funds to do government well.

As we know, the governor vetoed that budget, in large part because it didn't increase teacher pay an off and also did not expand Medicaid, which by the way has a $6 billion price tag on it so you see this year. I think that there was that clear divide between the Gov.'s idea of how big government should be in the Gen. assembly's idea of reining in the growth of government.

There was some movement on the standard deduction. The zero tax bracket.

What is this what this was the part of the tax package that went through this year and we had transformational tax reform in North Carolina. Donna through the years, big stuff happened middle of the of the 2000 2013 I think was the big tax package, but we had other things that have pushed that along with find that as we see things are working there ways to do that one was to continue to to look at how we tax businesses and to make North Carolina a tax friendly place for businesses to calm to set up businesses. Businesses here to expand with the growth that we've had that we seen. It really pays off more people working now on less people are dependent on government and then also a standard deduction that allows people to keep more of their money, but we've also seen a lawmakers really heed the Locke foundation's recommendations to make sure that we are saving money putting money aside and on that such a big deal because we never had that before.

Right now, today North Carolina has about $2 billion in her savings account. It's about 10% of our state budget is the largest that it's ever been in history and its yeah I don't like the a lot. I like having the savings account. But the reason was so important that we had and we just can look very recently with the storms that have come to a North: the recovery that we've had from that the devastating storms in the eastern part of the state as well as flooding and landslides and other things in the western part of the state so this affects all across North Carolina. We had that little bit of a cushion that we been able to get money into communities right away we been able to help businesses get back on their feet get the tourist industry back on their feet get people back in their homes on. It's been incredibly important to have that money. Becky mentioned a moment ago Medicaid you and your team have spent hours and hours talking to lawmakers about the fact that you don't have to expand Medicaid in North Carolina has not. You don't have to do that to help people get access to affordable health insurance will and there's lots of other options on this kind of two ways of looking at this healthcare problem and I think that we can agree that healthcare is become so expensive is so expensive that it is an prohibitive to many of folks in North Carolina you solve that problem. Willie Cooper believes that the way you do that is you just have government pay for it and provide people with health insurance through Medicaid which is really a broken very fragile program right now or you can look at ways to reduce the cost of healthcare.

Three. Things like removing certificate of need loss through providing care through telemedicine and using technology to get healthcare into communities inside my have to take off work necessarily to go for a doctor's visit they can do that over their phone or their computer.

Scope of practice. There's probably a dozen different things known or the silver bullet, but to gather when you to if. If you're if you're trying to solve the problem in a way that gives people more freedom and less government interference there ways to do that other than Medicaid expansion regulatory reform.

Becky once again a multi-year effort, particularly over the last decade but this year we did see some really positive movement when it came comes to the alcohol production industry and also taking a look at rules and regulations and cutting some of those back but in that year. That's part of this formula that we been looking at for 30 years and part of the successful formula that within the last 1010 years and it's rolling back regulations to allow people to work to allow people to prosper, to allow people to start businesses to allow people to enjoy. They are property and we seen that with continuation of a regular review of rules in determining do we still need him as a matter of fact with that process.

We have rolled hundreds of thousands of rules completely off the book and opened up this craft beer industry by removing some of the regulations. They are to a whole new growing burgeoning industry. Lots of jobs created and Becky at relatively new effort for the Locke foundation criminal law reform taken a look at what is a crime in North Carolina.

People would be surprised how well it it has been a new focus for the last several years, but certainly consistent with what we do and that is looking for opportunities for people to grow, removing barriers that stand in the way of people being able to start businesses to enjoy their life without the overburden. Some of of government and one of those is criminal conviction. So were looking at the overall criminalization in North Carolina and making it so regular folks can understand what crimes are so that were not committing crimes unknowingly or crimes don't stand in the way of beginning the business.

Thank you, don't say with as much North Carolina journal radio to come in just a moment tired of fake news tired of reporters with political axes to grind. Will you need to be reading Carolina journal, honest, uncompromising, old-school journalism, you expect and you need even better, the monthly Carolina journal is free to subscribers sign up@carolinajournal.com you'll receive Carolina journal newspaper in your mailbox each month. Investigations into government spending revelations about boondoggles who the powerful leaders are and what they're doing in your name and with your money. We shine the light on it all with the stories and angles. Other outlets barely cover but there's a bonus or print newspaper is published monthly by our daily news site gives you the latest news each and every day.

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Welcome back to Carolina journal radio I Michiko guide medicine has made great advances. It's possible today to treat many major diseases. What about cures for those diseases. Our next guest has an interesting idea for helping to find cures. Jim Butler is speaker pro tem of the Ohio State House of Representatives. He's visiting North Carolina to help promote his plat represented Butler welcome to the program extravagantly so you're here to talk about something called the cure bill. What's that all about. So the cure bill, which is now law in Ohio is a multistate compact that does exactly what you you said in your introduction. It incentivizes the private sector to develop cures for diseases instead of just treatments so right now the way the system works. The all the government money, which is $38 billion a year out of a little over hundred billion a year in total research and development and all the money from charities that goes into basic science research that never is going to cure anything it can help cure something by doing the basic research, but it never gets beyond animal studies. In order for anything that actually result in a in a careless approve.

The FDA private sector's and looks at all the basic science research generally and picks out whatever's good to make them the most profit because their businesses usually almost always. That is a treatment that you have to take for a long period of time. Even the rest of your life and it's not something that's going, you're going to take once or a short period of time and that you're never going to need again for obvious reasons. That's not what they've that's out. They invested in because the return on investment is to be there so this will now law of multistate compact where other states need to pass it. Also, for it's going to effect we need six states would would provide that incentive for the private sector, not by spending a bunch of money and I am not for doing that all it is is a pledge that whatever the states in the compact save for the first five years after cure is found in widely available and everyone secured the inventor can get that money as a prize.

It would be so much money in healthcare so expensive as everybody knows, especially chronic diseases that if you were to cure something like multiple sclerosis, you know, or breast cancer or diabetes or Alzheimer's.

It's tens of billions of dollars, even if only you. Several states were to join the compact is how much that the savings would be just over that five-year period of time so so this is law in Ohio now and you need other state. So I imagine that's the main reason to be in North Carolina the C4 interested that is correct. That's what I've been been doing that are for the past couple weeks. You know various conferences of visiting other states, but to try to get as obvious as many states as possible because the more states that joined the compact, the more the greater the savings the five-year savings would be and therefore the greater the prize, the higher the prize would be and the more the private sector would do trial and error. That's the whole point. That's how things get invented and we want to have the incentive is sufficiently high so that the private sector and including stock market, hedge funds, pharmaceutical companies by attacks everybody all around the world will look at that basic science to look at those cures in mice or rats that we see all the time for all these diseases and say I want to take a risk on that, even if it's only you know a 1% chance that this might actually result in a cure than it's worth. My investments worth my $5 million, which is the average price of the clinical trial to go ahead and try it because right now that's not there. It's there and it's there all over the place for all these diseases in the pre-in the private sector funds hundreds of thousands of human clinical trials on the things that will potentially result in the cure that currently aren't being done now in no time at all.

Many of the horrible diseases that are faced by by all of us could be cured for real.

We here prepare always elected official say hey we need to cure that secure that what they do is a just appropriate more money and it goes with that basic science research, which is why we haven't had a cure for anything since polio units over 50 or 60 years ago. Now so that's that's the general concept and I'm hopeful that this will spread across the country representative Jim Butler is speaker pro tem of the state House of Representatives in Ohio on paper sounds pretty good if if you talk to people in the healthcare award to entrepreneurs. What's been the response overwhelmingly positive.

So when you talk about for his starting with elected officials.

The first thing we have to do is make sure that we were not spending taxpayer dollars on anything that that potentially might work in Everett ever doing that then we have to weigh the advantages and disadvantages of spending that money in this case, there is no spending of money.

The taxpayers are completely protected because unless there's a cure. Then there is no payment, and unless the states actually save money. Once the cure is widely available. There is no payment so something unexpectedly comes up and that the cure isn't working right or it's it's not a resulting in the savings that were projected the states, the taxpayers still only pay the difference between what they were paying to care for something, like multiple sclerosis and then now that there's been a cure but they're paying and they do that for that five-year period by looking back every year for actual numbers so there's no way incident doing this that that anyone can lose. We can only gain by doing this it any pushback at all that pay, we would love to see the cure but then were good be taken a hit in our budget for for a few years as we deal with this. Is anyone raise that all was. That's that. No, because it's not the case because you don't take a hit in your budget. It's impossible to get hit in your budget because you're still going to only be spending what you would've been spending anyway for that first five years, so it's never ahead and after that five years is up, then you're saving the money so you can only say you can't spend more and there's another part of this. So if the if somebody wants to claim the prize than they give up the patent in exchange for the prize. The compact make sure that they contract with a company to make sure for manufacturing, distribution, licensure and liability that everyone gets secure so that it's widely available. Everyone get sick.

That's been a problem with some of these expensive treatments out there so the compacting states get the cure at there at the cost whatever the cost to do so would be pennies compared to what we currently pay for many different expensive treatments. Everybody else all over the world. States that are part of the compact, the federal government who can join the compact. If they want which is a difference in some of the other multistate compacts or other and other countries. They also only pay the cost for the cure, but they also pay a royalty. That's equal to their five-year savings is only fair rate that they have to pay their five-year savings, but their five-year savings is not part of the prize.

The prize is only the compacting states. The states that have joined the compact their five-year savings so it's extra money that Ruddiman is extra money that goes to pay for the expenses of the compact, but also most of it will go back to the states that joined the compact is a rebate.

So instead of having to wait five years to save money for the states. Then they could see savings immediately or after only one or two years, so it pays to be in the compact. Most of all because it could save millions of lives of even just one.

One disease was carried and you know 85% of all expenses for Medicaid 75% for overall healthcare costs are chronic diseases imagining know if this curing one major disease have that the impact that that would have it for me personally, both my parents passed away cancer in their 50s, which is how 20 years ago, I found out about the problem because there wasn't anything much there cancer spread that might cure them and I know many of your listeners out there. Face the same thing that was that's where this started. So for me the chance that at no cost at no risk.

The taxpayers of of making a difference and in curing these diseases and saving 70 millions and millions of lives in an untold pain and suffering. As is well worth well worth this will once again it is called the cure bill, the person who you been listening to who is pushing this is representative Jim Butler speaker pro tem of the state House of Representatives of the state of Ohio. Thanks much for joining. Thanks for having a lot more on Carolina journal radio just a moment.

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We hope in cool water will return on our money are we guessing nothing is easy to confuse that with say we want charities in the businesses usually some of them the most of them don't want blogging and investment lines that were says under review my donations as rigorously as I view my financial investments like a really all schools is money to be useful. Housing will be deployed.

One might expect him back.

Romans thought just seems to me the definition of being responsible, real money investment language helps to think about our investorstocrazythingswithmoneyandsoI'mnotencouragingphilanthropiststotheabsoluteknowsomeofthepeoplewhosorrowSuetakenthebiggestriskasinvestorsalsotoplayfromveryprivateresources.Philanthropistshaveprovensuccessful,andIdon'tthinkanyphilanthropicadvisorwould'vesaidtoGeorgeSoroshaveputalotofmoneyintotheuseoftheformerSovietUnionandtheSovietcontrolledpulseofEuropeinthehopethatyoubringdowncommunismandproduceliberalsocietiesisactuallyprobablyyouprobablysavedbymorecontributionofthemanymanyotherpeople,politicians,lifeinthemandEmbryaboutthealsoactuallysiltinginvestmentframeworkisagoodwaytothinkaboutmostofyourlong-termserviceplanisalsoshouldbeaplacebutjustdiscretionaryemotionalresponse.Philanthropywillinvestmenttheinvestmentframeworkisagoodwaytothinkabout.That'sMatthewBishop,co-authorofthe10-year-oldbookcilantrocapitalism.Hediscussedthebook'scontinuingrelevancetodayduringarecentspeechatDukeUniversity.BishopwrotethebookwhileservingasaUSbusinesseditorandNewYorkbureauchieffortheeconomist.MoreCarolinajournalradioinamomentwheredoublingdownonfreedomatCarolinajournalradiowereproudtobringyoustoriesthatimpactyourlifeandyourwallet.AndnowgettwiceasmuchfreedomwhenyoualsolistentoourpodcastheadlockavailableoniTunesand@johnlocke.org/podcast Locke is a little bit different.

It's a no holds barred discussion that challenges softheaded ideas from the left and the right, like Carolina journal headlock is smart and timely but with headlock you'll hear more about the culture wars get some more humor as well. We guarantee great information and a good time double down with us. Listen to Carolina each week and listen to headlock to remember, you can listen to headlock@johnlocke.org/podcast or subscriber download each week iTunes Carolina journal and headlock just what you need to stay informed and stay entertained both brought to you in the name of freedom by the John Locke foundation will go back to Carolina journal I Michiko got as state lawmakers recently read through North Carolina's congressional map they listen to public input about the mapmaking or redistricting process. Some comments dealt with the specifics of the proposed maps. Others highlighted more general concerns among those asking for a larger change to the redistricting process itself was Michelle Mauro of Kerry I am a mother of five and I often tell my children trust is lost in miles, and it gained in inches and unfortunately whether it's you or your predecessors that have chosen the districting maps that don't follow normal boundaries you've lost trust that the North Carolina enzyme here today because I think this is then drawn out for long enough. I think is a really simple solution in all it's going to take is a map of population centers and a calculator. It can probably be done in two days and we're just going to divide people. According to counties and when you need more people are less people according to the county.

Let's divide them by the already set up boundaries that are in existence when the city needs to be divided because there is too many people that need to be represented and lets his main thoroughfares and if it's an east-west, which is North and South communities on either side and vice versa for North and South. What I want to say as public servants. We appreciate that you want to serve our communities, but there are so many more important things that are uniting about the evil in North Carolina and this districting is taken way too long. We don't want to pay any more money we don't have pay outside sources to do it. We don't want the judges to do it can be done very simply, I think in the other thing I want to say is, it would be. It will be in your best interest to focus on things like healthcare and education and how and responsible growth that is not putting an overburden on the citizens that already live in the state for those that want to move here and want to live here. I think you might even find that if you get this done in a nonpartisan way that is uniting an equitable way. You might even find that the next election is the easiest want and you don't have to protect your special-interest groups and the deep pockets that you want to keep in your districts right now click of Mooresville compared lawmakers fighting over redistricting to children. When I catch my kids bickering with one another they they often want to tattle on each other. They tell me.

He started at her or she did it and from my observation I see our elected leaders behaving much the same way. I've heard Republican leadership say things like, will the Democrats did it to us so were going to do it to them to me a famous saying, will they started it towards their fault is not my fault as a parent with my children and as a citizen of the state.

I don't really care who started we just wanted to stop right. I think anybody was babysat has kids even as nephews can relate to that. We just want the bickering to stop the citizens of North Carolina shouldn't have to rely on the courts to address this issue, Constitution is the power of creating districts to the state legislature. We should have trust in the state legislature to accomplish this task that our founding fathers place to place trusting in you to do. We want this process to come to a fair and just resolution.

We want a legislature that represents the people of North Carolina. It represents all parties fairly represents minority groups fairly represents gender groups fairly. We want a congressional delegation to represent the people of North Carolina fairly.

We want our leaders to put their personal political ambitions aside, what our leaders to put their political party interest aside and serve the country and serve the state. Elizabeth's bronco of durum merge lawmakers to use technology more when drawing election maps.

Talk to you about algorithms we tend to think an algorithm is something that computers do, but it turns out that algorithms are just rules rules like minimizing County slaves minimizing minimizing polity split not allowing for double traversal maximizing compactness and allowing for incumbency when it does make a difference on those other things right people can draw maps using algorithms like this but the problem with people is that when there are ties. Or when there's a conflict in the rules we freak out we fall apart and we start violating rules. I would like to argue that computers do a much better job at drawing these maps and that your job in the future with the advancing computers with quantum computing, which is coming to pray right now as we speak. Your job is not going to be to draw the map. Your job is going to be to decide upon the rules to decide what happens when the rules are tied result in a tight map and I urge you to talk to experts. We have many of them in the triangle here. We gladly drive to Raleigh here and talk to you about what kinds of rules make for the best maps make for fair maps so that we can avoid another decade of issues and litigation J Delancey of the voter integrity project questioned the entire process of changing North Carolina's lecture maps North Carolina's constitutional crisis and here's why hundred 10 years the Democratic Party use the redistricting process to dominate North Carolina politics. Then in 2010. The Republicans won control and suddenly redistricting was magically transformed into gerrymandering in Democrats front groups waged lost arrogance legislature activist judges played along with the power grab and Republican gerrymandering was then declared racial gerrymandering in the court-ordered, more partisan maps.

This this governing body famously complied with that rule and said okay will give you more partisan maps and just like Goldilocks. That same court said oh it's excessive partisan. Lucy was going on here after one last appeal Supreme Court John Roberts made matters worse by declaring gerrymandering was not a federal issue.

We got half light should've said it was not a judicial issue. See our founders use this document called the Constitution they may gerrymandering a legislative process and they did it for good reason is called accountability a legislature that abuses the redistricting powers will eventually be voted out. Other actually quickly be voted out in some cases but the same cannot be said for judicial gerrymander or even worse, nonpartisan gerrymandering like we see in California state. Gerrymandering always involves party a drawing. The district lines to disadvantage party be just like eliminate is limiting gerrymandering is partisan by definition, and it is a legislative power. Wayne Boyles of Pinehurst, a former aide to US Sen. Jesse Helms echoed Delancey's concerns. We should not be here today. It is not fair to our statement of sugars from when the losing party all pure wish for you to who cannot be persuasive through the electoral ballot box ones like little children to a federal or state judges, and in football problems just to order our Gen. assembly to move the goalpost calls are dissatisfied with the alcohol judicial three we have here is short short. Democracy is March are pursuing powerful power should all public service here in the state and the nation is summed up in the King James Matthews gospel 2028 just as the Son of Man did not come to be sure, but to serve, and give his life a ransom for many. That's for sure. Hood established our founders local power was never a consideration.

This judicial fiat is providing subsidies for federal public policy decisions are to be rejected and democracy marketplace you been listening to recent public comments about North Carolina's process for redrawing the congressional election map, regardless of any other court action.

The state will have to go through the process again after getting new census data in 2020 will return with North Carolina real influence. You either have it or you don't and at the John lot foundation. We have it, you'll find our guiding principles in many of the freedom forward reforms of the past decade here in North Carolina.

So while others talk or complain or name call. We provide research solutions and hope our team analyzes the pressing issues of the day jobs, healthcare, education, and more. We look for effective ways to give you more freedom, more options, more control over your life.

Our goal is to transform North Carolina into a growing, thriving economic powerhouse envy of every other state. Our research is how policymakers make decisions that ensure you keep more of what you are. Expand your choice of schools for your kids. Widen your job opportunities improve your access to doctors. The recipe for stability and a bright future for truth for freedom for the future of North Carolina. We are the John Locke foundation.

Welcome back to Carolina Journal, I'm Donna Martinez, mental health issues have become more of a focus not only in society in general and specifically in the discussion healthcare policy. Turns out that at least one state, California has experienced a big increase in emergency room visits uses by people with mental health issues. Jordan Roberts is the healthcare policy analyst for the John Locke foundation and he has begun to follow this trend joins us now to talk about it at Jordan. Welcome back to the program, vice government, you've been blogging recently about the issue of mental health.

What really galvanize this in your mind that it rises to your radar screen. Yes sir. You know I started. I subscribed a lot healthcare newsletters that report on research and in the general use of the day in healthcare and so you know over the last years so I noticed all the studies coming out about how mental health issues are on the rise.

Substance abuse issues are on the rise. Behavioral health issues are on the rise, and particularly their arm affecting the younger folks nuke high school age college-age and the millennial generation particular. And so it just is curious to me that this demographic of younger people was disproportionately affected by this and so I started to get into more and more, and it turns out there's certain to be a lot of interest in researching this topic and really were just in the, data collection, stage right now but army others. A wide body of research that shows that younger folks particularly or are having higher rates of mental health issues that is so alarming and just disturbing rice troubling for those people and what that could portend for their lives ahead, particularly if they don't get some sort of help and that of course is the intersection with healthcare policy which will get to you a minute. But damn it this point. Early on in the discussion and research on this.

Are there any thoughts as to what potentially is causing all of this anxiety and visits to hospitals. Yeah there's a lot of people that are trying to figure out out but you. Here's what we see we see that your insurance claims in hospital data will show us that emergency rooms or be more heavily used and more often than not it's a mental health or behavioral health issue.

We also see among young people. We also see among young people that the reporting higher levels of unhappiness than previous generations of the same time and also more feelings of loneliness and isolation and so meets wondering in no other researchers to could social media things like cell phones be know having some sort of cause and you know looking into the research. Further, there is are psychological studies that are done on the show links between higher uses of cell phones and screen time with higher rates of loneliness and you know, lack of self-confidence and things like that so you know while there is not a direct link I think is really something there that you know as kids are sacrificing more face-to-face time with family, friends, neighbors, and replace never screen time. You know there's there's there's an effect going on there and you know I think we started starting to see it play out a little bit with some of the insurance claims data where high school students and college students year-over-year going up three, 400% of the amount of claims going towards this so counterintuitive, at least in in in my mind Jordan because now we are literally connected to the world connected to pretty much anybody we want to be connected to right in the palm of our hands with our cell phone and particularly on social media. If you follow people. Whether it's Twitter or Instagram or Facebook their lives look really happy interactive and that everything is going great. I kinda wonder, not based in research because I'm not a researcher like you want but if we set up a false expectation for people yet know I deafly think that's it. You want to give us more so my opinion based off what I've seen, but I think that you know what happens is it was so much access to other people's lives in information everything to become sort of a comparison game and people are spending so much time online because his general human nature. We want to feel like we belong to something we want to be a part of something and so sometimes social media can be valid belonging be the place we could be involved. But that's not real life, and so you think your kids are younger kids may get caught up in this. This is real life. But it's not. And so I think that's that's one of the certainly one of the trends and one of the things I think is really important in this conversation. A researcher name Robert Putnam wrote a book about this idea of social capital know about the societal trusts the societal fabric that keeps us together interactions with people that are different than ours but we can trust them and so you know last time we spend with our neighbors and communities less trust there is the more isolation that can lead to these behavioral health problems that we see. So I think they're all interconnected, but really nailing down everything is going to be tall Taos researchers in the future not only troubling for the individuals who are having these episodes where they feel like they they need to seek professional help, but from a policy perspective, Jordan. This is got to be having an impact on the utilization of medical care and course that takes us to the issue of cost seeing any of that Yami I think it will take a while, so the full cost is borne out, but what we see now is that you reference in California of the emergency department use for use with mental or behavioral problems is just skyrocketing and so you know the emergency room is the most expensive place to receive care and a lot of times people go for a panic attack or it's not something mild. But something that probably doesn't need an emergency room visit and you know we that's that. We eventually all paid for our premiums and everything all the healthcare spending so will receive it. You know, individuals are going to the emergency room with more instances of people either attempting suicide or successful suicide. You know, these are all have implications for use of the utilization and especially in the most expensive place the emergency room and a lot of times we see people kind of almost emergency room surfing for rock a better term. They just keep bouncing around as they can't really find the help they need. Because a lot of times.

Emergency rooms is nothing really to diagnose other than you're having a panic attack or something like that and so does it it's it's a real problem. I can remember growing up, my mom had this says saying if there's no blood or no bones in the emerging rules are exactly but ironically cordoned the potential source of at least part of this problem the phone in the other hand could also be a potential help for people talked a little bit about telemedicine. That's right so you know, telemedicine is really filled the void where these people may think they can get help. You know, connecting someone view your your telephone or cell phone with mental health professional will be in your state or out of state, but it offers that our level of personalization and you know some people may feel ashamed or embarrassed to go to and admit they have some sort of problem. So telemedicine is really good, it can really know how the potential to help solve a lot of these issues by just connecting people more and more personalized and comfortable manner to try to address the problems when a less costly manner directly exactly and so you know that's the most important thing is when these issues start flaring up is to give these people are suffering from mental health issues get them help and from a professional to try to, you know, tamp down on these before they become bigger issues down the line.

Well, unfortunately, it is become a bigger and bigger issue. It has become an Jordan Roberts though is starting to blog about that right about that and take a look at some of the growing body of research in this area of mental health really young people your thank you very much that's all the time we have for the program this week.

Thank you for listening on behalf of Mitch. Okay I'm Donna Martinez will join us again next week for another edition of Carolina general radio Carolina general radio is a program of John Locke to learn more about the John Locke foundation donations support programs like Carolina general radio sending email to development John Locke done. Call 66 Jayla 186655346 weeks Carolina Journal radio is the John line foundation, Carolina's free-market think tank and Carolina broadcasting system, Inc. all opinions expressed on this program are solely those did not merely reflect more the station nation about the show or other programs and services of the foundation. John Locke toll-free at 866 JL would like to thank our wonderful radio affiliates across Carolina and our sponsors. Carolina Journal radio. Thank you for listening. Please join us again next week