Carolina Journal Radio No. 870: N.C. parental school choice options continue to grow

From Cherokee to current tagging from the largest city to the smallest town and from the statehouse into the schoolhouse Carolina Journal radio your weekly news magazine discussing North Carolina's most of public policy events and issues welcome to Carolina Journal radio why Muskoka during the next hour, Donna Martinez and I will explore some major issues affecting our state.

The libertarian Cato Institute has taken that interested North Carolina's criminal law reform efforts. Cato analyst explains why the nation's longest running federal judicial vacancy is been filled as Richard Myers was confirmed to serve as a judge in North Carolina's Eastern district, Sen. Richard Burr explains his vote of support for Myers. One of the most vocal internal critics of the University of North Carolina system discusses the negative impact of social justice on campus you hear why Mike Adams of UNC Wilmington is concerned and will highlight two important developments that will affect North Carolina's 2020 election campaign, those topics are just ahead. First, Donna Martinez joins us with the Carolina Journal headline later this month. Parents and schools across North Carolina. In fact, throughout the country will join together to celebrate National school choice week. It's all about the growing movement to empower parents and kids with an array of choices for how and where kids actually receive their education in this country. North Carolina's school choice movement has grown dramatically over the last two decades or so. Dr. Terry stoops has chronicled all of that progress doing a lot of research on his own on the issue. He of course is the vice president for research. The director of education studies here at the John Locke foundation Terry welcome back to the show.

Thank you. Give us a sense of nationally how school choice is faring school choices faring very well.

Students now have more choices than they ever have.

The charter school movement continues to grow in in most states states that don't have charter schools are starting to get them. Most recently, West Virginia passed a law that would start allowing charter schools to be established in that state, private school voucher programs continue to grow as well. We find that there is a tremendous amount of support for school choice when you look at the polling, especially among African-American parents. I think that there's a real movement there that there are there is there are groups of parents that are finding that the traditional public schools just aren't working for their children and so they they find that the options that are made available to them through voucher programs, increase opportunities for homeschooling and for charter schools are really attractive in being able to provide their child. The education that best meets their needs. Terry wanted curious things I think is that I think we all understand that every child is different. They have different challenges different interests different aptitudes and so that the mere concept of a one-size-fits-all classroom just seems to be obviously not the best thing for every child, even though traditional public school classroom certainly works for a lot of kids and their parents and they would choose that and that's fine but it always amazes me when you hear some people say well we shouldn't have more choices but here in North Carolina.

This movement has grown dramatically for a number of years now. Give us a sense of where we are sure right now around 20% of North Carolina's school-age children attend the school of choice. This is home schools, private schools and and charter schools, and that doesn't include the small number of students that attend magnet schools, which are district schools of choice where students apply for specialized schools to be able to attend, usually in an urban area and and these are mostly located in Charlotte Mecklenburg and wake County Guilford County Winston-Salem as well and so we have we have a large and growing school choice movement here in North Carolina were one of the largest percentage wise states with with school choice students. If you look at as a percentage of our total school population, you have 20% in North Carolina around 25% in Florida that's that's probably the only state in the southeast that is able to best North Carolina when it comes to the share of children that are in schools of choice.

So it continues to grow in North Carolina especially public charter schools. Basically, the population of North Carolina's so charter schools have doubled over the last five or six years. Homeschooling continues to increase an incredible rate around hundred and 42,000 homeschoolers in North Carolina and a private school population exceeds 100,000 kids and mostly staying level is where it has in the past. One of the people in North Carolina who is really done incredible work to help provide more options to parents is a gentleman named Bob Leddy. In effect, Bob Luddy is going to be a speaker here at the John Locke foundation on Monday, January 27 at noon.

He is going to be our speaker as we participate in national school choice week and down. If you can't make it here in Raleigh actually at John Locke foundation headquarters to be here in person just going to Facebook. We will be live with that. Bob Luddy's presentation at 12 noon Terry at tell us little bit about Bob Luddy's role in choice sure Bob Luddy was the founder of Franklin Academy charter school and wake forest.

It was one of the original North Carolina charter schools established after the law was passed in 1996 and so in the late 90s Franklin Academy charter school was founded its grown significantly, it has probably one of the largest wait lists of any charter school in the state around 1600 kids that attend Franklin Academy charter school and wake forth. That's how Bob got his feet wet, but he wasn't done, and he mostly now works in the private school sphere with his Thales Academy schools that are as of 2018 and rolling 3000 children. There are eight schools established now in North Carolina they're moving to other states. The school is going to be founded in Virginia. These are low-cost, high-quality private schools that are in incredibly popular you talk to parents that send their kids to Thales Academy for half 1/3 of what they would spend it at another private school, and in it's not just about the cost of the cost is five over just over $5000 per year.

It is about the quality and the quality that Thales Academy is able to provide is really exceeds any other type of school that that surrounds him so he's establishing the Thales academies and they just continue to grow because the demand for low-cost, high-quality private schools continues to grow and again we are delighted to be hosting Bob Luddy for his remarks in a presentation about school choices. We participate in national school choice week that will be Monday, January 27 12 noon here at the John Locke foundation in Raleigh and if you like to come. Just go to our website. John Locke.org and you can fill out your registration form right there only takes about 60 seconds or so to do that but if you still want to be part of it and cannot join us in person, not a problem at all.

We will be live on Facebook at 12 noon on Monday, January 27. Careless talk more about some of the types of of school choice. You, yourself, and help to have found a public charter school in North Carolina and charter schools seem to be growing and there are lots of them in the pipeline. In fact, you and I just recently where were looking at a story out of the Asheville area about down a group that wants to form a charter school. There is a sense of the types of schools that are being formed. The great thing about the charter school movement in North Carolina is that it's not one-size-fits-all and so you find that the charter schools are being found in the summer elementary summer high school some target specific student populations. Some are targeting just the general population.

The area they have different approaches to curricula. They have different instructional approaches and then that's really the. The rich types of choice that are available in North Carolina. We have 196 charter schools that enroll around the hundred and 17,000 kids and we were seeing the that the number of charter schools were adding every year between five and 10 charter schools looking at diverse ways of educating students because it's not just about giving them an alternative choice. But it's giving them in a meaningful choice where a parent can say look at the curriculum.

Look at the type of types of ways that the child is going to be educated in the classroom and determine whether that really is best for their kid. We we have kids that come to our school to find that it's not right for them and they leave and they go to a school that is right for them. That's really what choices about it's not just about creating alternatives. It's giving parents the information they needed the opportunities they need to be able to find something that best fits their kids in and we find that in most cases appearance very satisfied with having that alternative that we provide for them and with every charter school provides for them and that's why there's such a demand.

Dr. Terry stoops is the vice president for research. The director of education studies here at the John Locke foundation thinking is much more Carolina journal radio to come in just a moment tired of fake names tired of reporters with political axes to grind.

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We hold government accountable for you. Welcome back to Carolina journal radio why Michiko guy, the libertarian Cato Institute is taking note of efforts in North Carolina to clean up the state criminal code. Cato joined the John Locke foundation to sponsor a recent daylong forum on criminal law reform Cato policy analyst Jay Schweikert served as a featured panelist why the interest in criminal law reform.

Cato is interested in criminal law reform because we see it is an important first step in building abusive criminal justice reform were generally the reason that I work in criminal justice and why caterers may be such a priority is that failures in our criminal justice, public policy really are some of the most serious issues facing our nation facing individual states that I think we face right out all criminal law reform is I think a really significant important first step for that. It also has the potential to bring together a lot of different individuals and organizations with near diverse interests and political priorities with the can all agree on some of the most serious problems that arise from ambiguity, confusion, and wickedness in the criminal law. Why is tackling the criminal code. A good first step to take clarification of the criminal law itself is a good step. Good first step because one the arguments for doing it are really just overdetermined. There really aren't good arguments are having a confusing substantive criminal law that the average citizen can't understand for having duplication of offenses for having outdated offenses that may not even be constitutional. Or, more generally, just aren't sensible use of the criminal law really almost everyone can get behind that. I think once you can get those people on board with a sensible, comprehensive, intelligible statement of what actually should be criminal offenses in a particular area then you can have better, more meaningful, informed discussions about larger questions like sentencing issues like plea bargaining practices, but until you really know with some degree of precision what is a criminal offense in the first place. Those discussions are to be far more difficult and less productive kinds of problems does it create when people don't know with the laws are there two main sets of problems I see with people not knowing what the law is one is that of course they can't conform their conduct to the criminal law and there is no inherent basic notion of fundamental fairness in the Anglo-American criminal justice system that criminal offense requires a criminal minds. This is awful. The mens rea requirement.

You have to be culpable before you can even commit a criminal act that sort of a bedrock part of our common law, but with the rise of regulatory fences and widespread strict liability offenses of other sorts. This is really a fundamental fairness problem and holding people criminally accountable, which is of course until serious risk including incarceration when they didn't even know their ranking wrongfully, but the second reason it's problematic. The people don't know what is criminal is that it undermines respect for the rule of law in general. We would think that the sorts of things that are criminal offenses should be the things that people understand are inherently wrongful and when they're not when you criminal extrawide rate of offenses. It makes ordinary otherwise law-abiding citizens decent people into lawbreakers and it teaches them that something mean against the lot really isn't that serious of a problem. Things could be illegal, even criminal and not be wrongful. And that's the exact opposite understanding of what you would want in terms of a relationship between citizens of the state rather you rather be the case that there are some offenses which are wrongful but not criminal, so having a sensible streamlined codification of the criminal law is important not just people can know what is criminal but so that all have respect for the criminal justice system in the first place. That's the voice of Jay Schweikert criminal justice policy analyst for the libertarian Cato Institute, you follow these issues from a national perspective what your sense of how North Carolina stands compared to other states. From my conversation so far with North Carolina legislators and other stakeholders in this conversation.

There seems to be a lot of genuine interest and enthusiasm for this project and a lot of bipartisan or nonpartisan consensus, so I'm not an expert in North Carolina politics. I can't give you any specific predictions, but I think that there's I can. I can see that there's a lot of interest and enthusiasm behind this movement and I think there are a lot of details to be hashed out by based on my limited perspective. So far I'm pretty optimistic that the key decision-makers here taking this problem seriously and working towards a solution North Carolina set an example for other states. It would absolutely set a great example for states across the nation.

If North Carolina could move forward on this project.

I think that this is something that there's a lot of states have the potential to take seriously and that and really can can unite a lot of groups and politicians and organizations that otherwise disagree on lot but have the potential to work together here. I think that requires some degree of trust and some degree of examples of seeing that it can work and I think if North Carolina can provide that you could eat. You could easily see that being a major spur toward states across the nation enacting similar proposals kinds of challenges do you see with this effort to clean up the criminal code. There are going to be a lot of haggling over the details. I know that one issue that's important to a lot of the municipalities is their ability. The ability to have the delegation basically that that they a lot of localities feel that their specific local issues of the need to have some flexibility to address the criminal law.

So I think that there's no going to be a discussion about how extensive acting needs that can be. I think one of the amino someone of the baseline requirements that you really would want to see there is at the very least if municipalities are to be creating their own criminal laws that be done with clarity that there basically be an opt in requirement as opposed to an opt out requirement but so as I know that that's that's an issue that's on the minds of a lot of the folks here but I think that there are wanting their ways to address that that are far better than where we are now, and I also think it's it's worth keeping in mind that a lot of the general criminal statutes can be applied in ways that can address local concerns, so I think that in part of the reason you need. Codification is that even simple decision-makers don't always know what is already criminal at the state level. So if you had comprehensive codification that might actually address a lot of these local concerns because they might realize they are to have the tools available under the general laws. If this succeeds, what would be different in North Carolina's criminal justice system. If this proposal moves forward. You could be looking at one of the North Atlantic to be a state where you can easily look at and identify what all the criminal laws are and I think that's pretty rare. At this point is sort of an article of faith that I think most people who work in this field have that you just it's never possible to know all even count all the laws, much less know all of them so far. Carolina can can have an excellent circumference of codification. It will be a significant difference from where the certainly for they are now and from were most states are. So I think if I could be a very promising developments and a sign of things to come from states around the nation.

Does North Carolina need to tackle criminal law reform before it addresses other criminal justice issues. There are lots of problems at every level of our criminal justice system from criminal law itself to policing practices to criminal adjudication to accountability for law enforcement. I think it's important to be working on all of those, I don't think there's any one that is strictly necessary to fix before the others, but I do think the criminal law reform is one of the not the most important first steps because everything else in the criminal justice system flows from what is criminal in the first place. When you have over criminalization that affects policing practices that affect relationship and trust between citizens and law enforcement that affects what cases are being who are you going to trial or more often are being resolved through plea bargains so you know, I don't think that you could.

I think the problems are too complex or to fix them. Strictly speaking, one at a time, but I think that this issue is uniquely well-positioned to have positive downstream effects if we can start here.

That's Jay Schweikert criminal justice policy analyst for the libertarian Cato Institute will return with North Carolina general radio in a moment. If you love freedom we got great news to share with you now. You can find the latest news, views, and research from conservative groups across North Carolina all in one place North Carolina conservative.com it's one stop shopping. North Carolina's freedom movement and North Carolina conservative.com. You'll find links to John Locke foundation blogs on the days news Carolina journal.com reporting and quick takes Carolina Journal radio interviews TV interviews featuring CJ reporters and Locke foundation analysts, opinion pieces and reports on higher education from the James G.

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Mars was the first generation college student and his family. He worked his way through undergraduate his undergraduate degree at the University of Wilmington and after college pursued a career in journalism and work for the Wilmington MorningStar and it was as it is in his investigative reporting that gave them the desire to earn his law degree graduated cum laude at the University of North Carolina law school and become a legal career as a clerk for Judge Davidson tell the DC District Court of Appeals second person. Mars will be a judge who understands the value of public service. Having made a career change from practicing at a prestigious private firm to contributing to our nations justice system following the attacks of September 11, 2001. He said that his change in career and are quoting something. I felt that I could do and that owed the country that had been really good to my family unquote is first in the Central District of California and then in the Eastern District of North Carolina.

Prof. Myers them took a different path of service of the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, instructing the next generation of lawyers to be people in his own words quote do the right thing every day. Unquote Prof. Myers will serve a mistress of North Carolina and Will Hold Ct. in Wilmington.

Ironically, this court is currently meeting in the building that one sells the Wilmington MorningStar's first job as a reporter.

However when considering our story. It seems fitting that someone with the character, work ethic and servants approach to life will be returning to the building of his first postcollege job wearing a robe of a federal judge. I have faith in Prof. Myers ability to do the right thing every day in this critically important role. That's North Carolina's senior US Sen. Richard Burr explaining his support for the state's newest federal district court judge Richard Myers germ with more Carolina Journal radio where doubling down on freedom at Carolina Journal radio were proud to bring you stories that impact your life and your wallet. And now get twice as much freedom when you also listen to our podcast headlock available on iTunes and@johnlocke.org/podcast headlock is a little bit different. It's a no holds barred discussion that challenges softheaded ideas from the left and the right, like Carolina Journal radio headlock is smart and timely but with headlock you'll hear more about the culture wars get some more humor as well. We guarantee great information and a good time � that's listen to Carolina Journal radio each week and listen to headlock to remember, you can listen to head back@johnlocke.org/podcast or subscriber download each week iTunes Carolina Journal radio and headlock just what you need to stay informed and stay entertained both brought to you in the name of freedom by the John Locke foundation. Welcome back to Carolina Journal radio I Michiko guide one of the most vocal internal critics of the University of North Carolina system recently turned his attention to the impact of social justice on campus UNC Wilmington criminology professor Mike Adams discussed the issue during a forum sponsored by the national Association of scholars in the Martin Center for higher education renewal. Adams started with an anecdote I got out and had to fill out a letter of recommendation to one of my students great student and I'm accustomed to filling out these forms. Basically, I have to upload an actual letter, but I have to go through and check boxes and answer questions. One of the questions actually was the statement and I was asked to respond anywhere from strongly agree to strongly disagree.

One of the statements was the Apple applicant is committed to social justice and diversity.

Think about that for a moment how serious that is first of all, I have no basis whatsoever for judgment. When I teach evidence law and the federal rules of evidence. Politics don't come up at all, under any circumstances and I have no opportunity and no desire to judge the politics of my students in the classroom, but I am actually being forced to say that this is a person is who was on board with the social justice movement in order to get that person through the application process because you better believe if I were to answer in the middle, or strongly disagree with that. That would be the end of that student's application to the program. So obviously we are in a position where the social justice movement is now demanding that we great our students based upon their politics effectively that we evaluate them in that manner. I think it's very worthwhile for us to stop and ask how we got to this point Adams addressed the notion that social justice is tied to Marxist professors. We do have I think an assumption that the social justice movement is just something that kind of naturally flows out of a Marxist worldview right. Does that make sense. I mean it's really what it's really all about is redistribution. Now I am extremely annoyed by my Marxist colleagues.

I mean these people run around. They talk about having revolutions they don't own gone, so there's kind of entertaining and their annoying but the people that I work with it in my department that actually really annoy me and actually scare me a little bit more are actually the postmodernists and I have plenty of colleagues who are postmodernists who are truth deniers and I think we need to talk for just a second about how that worldview has contributed to the current crisis with regard to social justice. It has put in place certain policies that are very dangerous to academic life.

First of all let me what could be more dangerous than that, the postmodernist, a person who runs around in higher education input scare quotes around the word truth they actually reject the idea of objective truth and they think that what we call truth is simply a function of a power struggle between different groups and just one dominant group has emerged and they have allowed their narrative to dominate that's disturbing because what the hell was the point of having University. If we don't think that the pursuit of truth is possible because truth actually doesn't exist. That's incredibly dangerous and it really has produced some very serious campuswide problems that's UNC Wilmington criminology professor Mike Adams speaking recently about social justice. Adam says he's focusing much of his attention these days on issues like college campus speech codes.

That is my number one problem with the University system is the assault on free speech, but the other thing I've written about. More recently, in was a Federalist Society review, I co-authored an article with Casey Johnson when we were talking about the issue of due process on college campuses and specifically the need for us to have a right to counsel legislation.

These are two issues have been very important to make and I hope we can understand how the lack of due process and lack of free speech on college campuses been a serious issue that that's kind of been driven by postmodern worldview that kind of morphed into the social justice mission. I mean stop and think about it for just a moment. It is possible for us to have speech codes that actually eliminate all offensive speech because all speech is offensive to someone. It isn't possible for us to fully eliminate offensive speech unless we fully eliminate dialogue. So what happens from it.

In day-to-day life on the college campus is that we are involved in the selective enforcement of campus speech codes and how do we make a determination as to when we are going to crack down on someone for engaging offensive speech we look at demographics and we ask ourselves what group was the individual in who was offended by speech and if that person is a racial minority of the person is a feminist. If a person is a member of the LGBT community in heaven forbid they were offended by someone with white privilege. What we do. That's when the University stepson and the purpose in doing that is to what make sure that this dominant narrative out there from people who have white privilege is Taken down a notch and that these other in their CLS postmodernists. These other narratives from disenfranchised groups somehow emerge not through free and open marketplace of ideas bought by the University, tipping the scales in the whole process of free speech. How do all of these ideas line up with social justice on campus you can see how this is wholly consistent with the idea of social justice in the idea that individuals don't have rights, but groups have rights and that is antithetical to the entire American experiment and it is exactly the same way that we should analyze the current problem with campus due process all of a sudden in the last four years of the Obama ministration. We see a 49% increase in sexual assault on college campuses. How is that possible if sexual assault like every other predatory crime has been declining for over 1/4 of a century steadily since about 1992.

By the way how's that possible, but we've changed our reporting procedures on campus that haven't wake and we have created this false epidemic out there, why okay with.

The problem so that we can now come along with the solution. The solution is what now that we have this epidemic we need to do something about it. They have decided that we need to erode the presumption of innocence. The standard of proof beyond a reasonable doubt the predict the protection of double jeopardy. Why, because now the purpose of the campus judiciary is not to find the truth remember truth doesn't exist. It's to be used in scare quotes it, is to promote a narrative from a disenfranchised group on college campuses, namely women so what if a few innocent men are convicted in the process we are engaged in a leveling process in which were engaged in worn white privilege. Essentially it white male privilege. I should say in this context it is very disturbing because obviously you know this philosophy has greatly disrupted campus life. The erosion of due process, and more importantly I think the erosion of free speech has really undermined the very idea of what the University's purpose should be. Adam says there's some recent good news in North Carolina State legislation is helped fight campus free speech restrictions in North Carolina was the first state to approve a law guaranteeing due process rights for students charged in campus courts. The effects of the postmodern driven social justice movement have been very negative with regard to the campuswide community, but we've managed to use the legislature to fight back, to a degree and there's a lesson in that we have to have that relationship between right-thinking faculty members and the legislature and we have to use them as a tool for fighting back because the problems that we have are so incredibly deep.

That's Mike Adams UNC Wilmington criminology professor speaking recently in Raleigh for the national Association of scholars in the Martin Center for higher education renewal will return with more Carolina journal radio and about real influence. You either have it or you don't and at the John Mott foundation we have it, you'll find our guiding principles in many of the freedom forward reforms of the past decade here in North Carolina. So while others talk or complain or name call. We provide research solutions and hope our team analyzes the pressing issues of the day jobs, healthcare, education, and more. We look for effective ways to give you more freedom, more options, more control over your life.

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Welcome to Carolina journal radio and the first 2020 installment of locker room talk, I'm Donna Martinez joined here by my cohost Mitch Cho Chi Mitch good to have you with me here again so we can chitchat just between you and I yeah I can't even believe it's 2020, but what I really what I really can't believe is that we are now in to a presidential election year and if you can believe this. Folks in less than six weeks we will be voting in North Carolina in our primary and big super Tuesday in early March. But Mitch, fascinating controversy, continuing to roil here in North Carolina having to do with photo ID to vote now. We had a constitutional amendment that was approved by North Carolina voters overwhelmingly to require ID in order to vote.

Many states do that. So North Carolina clearly within the mainstream and yet continued legal challenges. Now we have a situation where a judge has stepped in and said no you cannot require photo ID to vote on March 3. Yet it's amazing that that this is happened as you alluded to. North Carolina is out of the mainstream by not having voter ID well over 30 states a clear majority of the states in the union have some sort of voter ID most of them also with a photo ID which is what we were talking about here North Carolina. North Carolina initially tried to have a voter ID back in 2013 that was struck down in the federal courts. At that time one of the primary reasons that happened is that voter ID was tied with a number of other election changes in a panel of federal court judges said look, all of these changes together look like they had some sort of racial impact that there was an attempt to suppress the minority vote. In fact, keep it that the phrase almost surgical precision came out of that discussion. So at that time of voter ID and the other changes were all struck down the Gen. assembly went back and said we still want to have voter ID, let's put this in front of the voters of North Carolina and see what they think.

So a voter ID constitutional amendment was placed on the ballot North Carolina voters said yes that makes sense. Let's have people have a voter ID so we ensure that people's votes are diluted by those who aren't supposed to vote and so in late 2018.

The Gen. assembly comes back to pass a law to implement a constitutional amendment as approved in effect. If you look at the types of IDs would be accepted.

It's almost everything that is not just not just the drivers license which would be what most people would use in effect. A lot of people were criticizing the legislation that was going to implement this because they said it. It is now so deluded you could come up with anything virtually to walk and be able to vote yet effective voter ID proponents. Those who been the advocates of it were not big fans of this proposal because they thought this was kind of a watered-down version of what would really work. But even beyond just that the types of IDs that would count the provisions in the new law said that if you didn't have it ID you could show up at your County Board of elections and the county board of elections which, if you will voter so there is absolutely nothing about this that would block anyone who is eligible to vote from voting. Yet, a federal judge Loretta big said no there's been a history of racial animus in voting laws and it looks as if this is targeting racial minority groups.

So were to put an injunction in place. No voter ID for the primary and nothing will happen until there's a trial. The state Atty. Gen. Josh Dina said he will appeal the ruling, but not before the primary, so at this point no voter ID for the primary that is the curious staying at Mitch any any speculation as to why Atty. Gen. Stein is saying yeah I will appeal but not right now. Well, if they in some respects this is a mirror image of the argument that Republicans made about the changing election maps close to an election and that is we are so close to the primary election and the balance being printed and all of the although that process starting that to try to challenge the selection to get a change would cause mass confusion so he is saying.

It states not because I don't want it for the primary but it's because would cause chaos. Although a lot of people are looking at as a potentially Democratic Atty. Gen. Josh Stein, Democrat Gov. Roy Cooper. Democratic activists were the ones pushing against voter ID all working in cahoots. I don't know that that's true but that certainly could be a possibility. Here's the tough thing for North Carolina.

I think Mitch M. There is no doubt coming you just read US history in the South and North Carolina has a very ugly and troubling past history of what was very real and voter discrimination in trying to keep certain people away from the polls and having their voice heard. But how do we kind of go forward into 2020 and acknowledge our past but say that's not the way it is now in 2020. Particularly since I think we have some voting statistics of the past several elections that show that actually minority voting turnout has been up in certain circumstances. How we move beyond that in this state could be hard to see how that happens, the way that things are playing out because most of the concerns that have been cropping up in terms of the racial aspect to elections have tended to be from the Democratic Party aligned interest groups who I think some critics would say are using those arguments as a way to get what Democrats want, rather than try to deal with the specific concerns of African-Americans or other minority groups on the voter ID piece, a key part of this is that the law that was passed, the one that was just enjoined by the federal judge was cosponsored by an African-American state senator and several African-Americans within the Gen. assembly voted for it so I can imagine that any of them were voting for a bill that they thought would disenfranchise African-American so as it stands on the March 3 presidential primary.

When we and North Carolina will be among those states voting on what's known as super Tuesday, no photo ID will be required to vote, so stay tuned on that and of course Carolina Journal reporting on this story and every development.

You can check out Carolina Journal.com also on twitter@Carolina Journal for the latest stem updates on that.

Okay so presidential primary. We know on the Republican side, we've got Pres. Trump running for reelection. He will be on the North Carolina ballot. There was a lot of thought Mitch that he was going to be the only candidate representing the Republican Party, but not so to more people have been added to the ballot. Apparently the state Republican Party did not want that to occur at the elections board, said we will add them to get out in the elections board has the final say on this, the Republican Party and the Democratic Party put forward their names of the candidates that they wanted in the Republican Party said look Donald Trump's could be the nominee has widespread support within the Republican Party. There's no reason to have a contested primary, but the state did a board of elections responding to complaints from the two candidates, including Bill, well, the former governor of Massachusetts that they said, look, these people are legitimate national candidates. They should have a chance to have a shot at it. So we'll see those additional names anything to be quite an interesting presidential ballot because we have five political parties represented on the ballot in your thinking. What are the five course we know about the Democrats and the Republicans. But we have met presidential candidates from the Libertarian party. Also, the Green party and the Constitution party. So Mitch should be very interesting to see how those candidates that shake out a big day voting day in North Carolina that will be Tuesday, March 3. We are part of super Tuesday. Mitch was great actually be across the table from you here for locker room talk. Our first installment of 2020.

Thanks for joining me that you have sure will be doing this again as we get closer and closer to election absolutely that's all the time we have for the program this week. Thank you for listening on behalf of Mitch and me help you join us again next week here on Carolina Journal radio Carolina Journal radio is a program of the John to learn more about the John Locke foundation donations that support programs like Carolina Journal radio send email to development John Locke done or call 166 JL left info 1-866-553-4636 Carolina Journal radio is the John line foundation, Carolina's remark and maintaining an Carolina broadcasting system, Inc. all opinions expressed on this program are selling those did not merely reflect the more the station information about the show or other programs and services of the John foundation, John Locke, toll-free at 866 JL would like to thank our wonderful radio affiliates across Carolina and our sponsors. Carolina Journal radio. Thank you for listening. Please join us again next week