Carolina Journal Radio No. 872: John Locke Foundation welcomes new CEO for fourth decade of advancing liberty

From chair to current tax and the largest city to the smallest and from the statehouse into the schoolhouse Carolina Journal radio your weekly news magazine discussing North Carolina's most of public policy events and issues welcome to Carolina Journal radio I'm Michiko got during the next hour, Donna Martinez and I will explore some major issues affecting our state 2020 is stacking up to be a major election year in North Carolina.

One of the states leading political observers previews the year ahead.

The ranking member of the U.S. House's education committee is North Carolina's Virginia Fox you learn why she thinks her Democratic colleagues are focusing on the wrong issues you've probably heard about the game of thrones, but how about the game of firms will discuss the long-term impact of agreement 900 years ago. But before we tackle each of these topics.

There's a change taking place in the John Locke foundation Donna Martinez tells us all about it in the Carolina Journal headline with the new year underway here at the John lock foundation. We are actually beginning our fourth decade of service to North Carolina with a new CEO Amy Cook is one of only four people who have ever held the CEO position since the John Locke foundation actually opened its doors in 1990.

Today I am delighted to share with you and introduce you to Amy Cook, Amy. Welcome to North Carolina what the John Locke foundation. Thank you so much and thank you so much for having me here today. IT seems that you brought the cold with you from Colorado where you are coming from what's what gives with that right will everybody keep kept telling me North Carolina was warm. I lie August.

This way I have yet to find that I think I was watching the news was yesterday and I said that was it. Sunday was the coldest day since November. I think I was here in November when you guys had your last day that I had my husband with me and both times he keeps a ghost. I'm not believing that North Carolina's actually warm okay see you brought the weather from Colorado with you.

Apparently you were not able to bring your beloved Colorado Rockies.

However to North Carolina. Your big time baseball fan. I am actually I learned to love. I learned to love baseball and I should add to this radio as well. Growing up as a kid in St. Louis. I'm a little used to heat and humidity, and of course baseball but I learned to love baseball by sitting in my backyard with my mom went to every single World Series game in 1944 when it was the Browns versus the Cardinal my very few watch the Cardinals win that that Siri said she watched every single guy, but I I learned to love baseball in radio, both by sitting in the backyard with my mom listening to Cardinals games being called on radio so I learned that that's where I came to love both of you are going to love North Carolina in terms of your affinity for sports we got them a couple of really cool minor league baseball teams here and we also course have all sorts of other sports and you're gonna have to choose a driver in NASCAR you have to choose at my college football and basketball team as well so he had a fun time only. I have to find an ACC team background from Missouri was a gate big 12, SEC, and what I've heard is don't even say as I fight onward to North Carolina so Colorado obviously wonderful state it's it's beautiful.

Everyone wants to live in Colorado just like everybody wants to live in North Carolina so why did you make the change and come here the John lock foundation will who wouldn't want to be here.

North Carolina has a lot going on for folders. There's nothing better than being part of the state are coming to a state that is enjoying it economic renaissance the way North Carolina is in Colorado has had much of that same type of economic renaissance and there were some similar public policies that actually come into play for both both states. But why North Carolina specifically and why John Locke foundation well again. Who wouldn't want to be here, but I get to be a part of an organization that for the last 30 years and going into its fourth decade. As you mentioned for the last 30 years has been laying a foundation of public policy that when you had the right or or courageous elected officials who have looked at that and said you know what I think were going to try some of those policies actually put them into place, and now you see this economic renaissance that is going on in North Carolina with hundreds of thousands of jobs created you flattened the state is flattened out its income tax structure that you have. This is a state whose state legislature. Think about this you have elected officials and I shouldn't say you it's we now I get to call the have state elected officials that have the foresight and the courage to spend to budget to rate of inflation plus population and the then put the rest into reserve that kind of fiscal responsibility takes takes courage. It takes leadership and that's what North Carolina has shown done it voluntarily known Colorado. We've also enjoyed when I was there.

We enjoyed it economic success, but that's in part because the legislature was forced through a taxpayers Bill of Rights to budget to rate of inflation plus population so another words Coloradans keep more of their money. North Carolina keep more of their money. What are they do with that they invested they they start new businesses.

They generate wealth. You see the same thing but North Carolina legislature. Our legislature did it voluntarily. They understand the importance of it. So who wouldn't want to be part of this and I get to lead the lock foundation in this incredibly talented staff into the fourth into its fourth decade of the kind of work. Not so interesting to hear you talk about it because here in North Carolina we know what's what's occurred over the past several years and you you laid it out perfectly. People are keeping more of what they earn.

There's more job opportunity. Everybody wants to come here and we always say look, we become a model for other states, but to hear you coming from Colorado that's really true. People are looking at us here and saying how did you do it. What was the recipe and of course here at the John Locke foundation. We have been laying out those policies and recommendations for years and over the past half decade or so, we've really seen a lot of progress with lawmakers actually picking up on a lot of that. What is so important that comes out of this had really love to hear your thoughts on this is what happens to the next generation because now you talking about the ability for example, for parents to build wealth, pass it on to their kids and give them a head start. Also, great, great question and that's where our work here at the lock foundation is even more important because what we have to continue to eat.

You laid that foundation. Now we have to continue that educational piece of telling people, letting the state know. Here's how this wealth was created and here's why it was created and pass it on to the next generation so North Carolina now you poised to operate even more opportunity for four the next generation. There's the research triangle there there okay Colorado is going to try and challenge North Carolina on this but the whole you know craft beer industry oh in figure it is here. Colorado will not win interest to me, and so on. And now that I'm in North Carolinian third on the Gallic but but just having that industry alone, one attracting young people but also it is that is a it's almost like a microcosm of you think about it used to just beating big huge conglomerates now anybody small business owner starting up craft industries craft beer now what is the next craft will whatever that is. But if if our state legislature. If our elected officials continue with this kind of leadership where people keep more of their own money. They are fiscally responsible and in and roll also rollback regulations so that it's friendly to businesses. The sky is the limit for North Carolina.

We we are we are going to be a case study for every single other state. That's new John Locke foundation CEO Amy Cook speaking with Donna Martinez.

Watch the full interview@carolinajournal.com under the video Will return with more Carolina journal radio in a moment tired of fake names tired of reporters with political axes to grind. What you need to be reading Carolina journal, honest, uncompromising, old-school journalism, you expect and you need even better, the monthly Carolina journal is free to subscribers sign up@carolinajournal.com you'll receive Carolina journal newspaper in your mailbox each month.

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Welcome back Carolina journal radio. I mixed coconut 2020 is shaping up to be a major election year. One of the race was to watch the top issues which voters could decide the tight races joining us to help answer those questions is a longtime observer of Tar Heel politics. John Hood is an author syndicated columnist and chairman of the John Locke foundation. Welcome back to the program.

Thank you Mitch.

So 20/20 is going to be a huge year or a huge year for for Tar Heel politics. What you could be pay most attention to. Possibly the number of times political so-called political experts use the term hindsight is 20/20. I think that's gotta be the most the most pervasive phenomenon in North Carolina politics because foresight is going up be very far away from 2020 we saw in 2016, surprises in North Carolina electoral outcomes resulting in 2018. It is very possible will see something like that again in 2020. Just remember the context in 2016 we had a US senator reelected Republican Richard Burr.

We have the Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump when by a couple three points and we had Pat McCrory, the incumbent Republican governor lose but we had other Republican statewide elected officials do well sometimes better than the candidates I just mentioned. What is that mean that means number one there are some voters who only vote for president. Or maybe Pres. and Sen. but they don't go all the way down the ballot. But that's not enough to explain it. It also means and pardon me if you think this sounds like a big foot hunting or something, but there are voters out there possibly often remote mountains written in and in most for mysterious blog somewhere in East North Carolina, who vote Democrat for some races and Republican for other races used to be a lot more of those kinds of split ticket voters there on his many but when you have a equally divided state like North Carolina which is one of the closest divided states as far as partisan affiliation in the country, then you're going to have a small but decisive number of ticket splitters people who voted for, let's say Roy Cooper and Don Donald Trump. There are such people. There were also people who voted for Hillary Clinton and Pat McCrory I suspect will be enough of those ticket splitters in 2020 to generate a mixture of outcomes rather than a clean sweep for one side of the other.

But I guess we'll see hindsight is 2020 will get back to the ticket splitters of just a bit, but with all of the elections of the ballot. This president, governor, U.S. Senate seat control of the Gen. assembly through all of those 170 legislative races.

Major court races on the ballot. Water can be one or two that you really focus most attentional well it's hard to ignore the top three races on the ballot.

The presidential race is critical. Democrats hope to defeat Donald Trump. It wouldn't guarantee that outcome if they want North Carolina but it would certainly make it very difficult for Donald Trump to be reelected without North Carolina there some other seats of other states.

I should say the Donald Trump needs that are harder gets the North Carolina places like the battleground states of the Great Lakes region if he struggling to get North Carolina he's probably not to be president. The second thing is kind of a similar point is the U.S. Senate race with Tom Tillis running for reelection this Democratic opponents will either be Cal Cunningham, the former State Sen. or Erica Smith, the current state Sen., the Republicans currently have 53 seats in the U.S. Senate. If they win the presidency and thus keep the vice presidency. Then they only need that they only need 50 seats to really control the chamber if the Democrats win the White House. The Republicans we need for seats they would need to to not lose four seats they went down to 49. Obviously they no longer be majority was pretty easy to see if the Democrats are going to do well and really threaten Republican control of the United States Senate. It's easy to see three places were Republican incumbents would be in trouble.

Main Colorado and Arizona.

These are places that would require very much interesting to happen because those states have been trending blue much more than North Carolina has you could see that happen, but that fourth seat that fourth seat for the Democrats is probably North Carolina. So top the Tom Tillis Rice could be the tipping point in control of the U.S. Senate.

That's number two for North Carolinians arguably the most important race is not the presidency or the Senate may be unbiased as I tend to focus on state policy, but I think the most consequential race for North Carolinians is the governor's race. We have a relatively weak governor in institutional power North Carolina that mean we have a week governor was the governor still matters a great deal.

Roy Cooper is running for reelection.

His likely opponent is Lieut. Gov. Dan Forest.

This is a match of people been expecting for years and absent of longshot successful primary challenge to Dan Forest by Holly Granger, state representative, it'll be a forest Cooper race forest Cooper race in many ways typifies North Carolina politics.

Both have been elected statewide multiple times.

Both are talented in their own way.

I suspect tremendous amount of money will be spent on both sides.

I think those of the key races to watch, but also wouldn't be shocked if we even had a competitive congressional race to we are chatting with John, who is chairman of the John Locke foundation also longtime observer of North Carolina politics earlier you mentioned the importance of the ticket splitters who could really make a difference as you see Tar Heel politics and the way these particular races play out what kinds of folks do you see as the potential ticket split. No I won't I won't be too oversimplified but if you think about two different kinds of ticket splitters North Carolina let's say a Trump Cooper voter in the rural area and a Clinton McCrory voter in the urban area in a Mecklenburg County.

Let's say let's say the of the other ticket splitter would be Mitchell County out the mountains. Those of ticket splitters who might vote for Roy Cooper and for Donald Trump again in 2020 might be people who were generally conservative that they feel more akin to the Republican of the Democratic Party, certainly at the national level. They at least disliked Trump's enemies or they like Trump are both but with the Democrat in the governor's race that that doesn't scare them. They sort of feel like that Roy Cooper might be good on education or something like that in the urban area though you might see a suburban type voter in the soup suburbs of Raleigh Cary, Charlotte, Greensboro, who don't like Donald Trump and going to vote for him for president.

When you go down the ballot a little bit to get nervous about tax increases. The Democrats might institute.

Certainly Roy Cooper has said things it would suggest he might want taxes to be bigger, they might like other policies that Republicans in the legislature generally been following and are nervous about Roy Cooper's constant battles with the Republicans and you could see of a suburban voter vote for the Republicans in state races like governor or State Sen. statehouse or something like that. But vote for for whoever Democratic nominee for president is these are examples of the kinds of ticket splitters again. Not very many. Only if a few percentage points of the of the North Carolina electorate, but enough to matter in a tight state with Donald Trump playing such a large role in national politics.

How much are any of these candidates for any other races going to be able to get their message out with people paying attention to for Oregon's 12 for talking about broadcast ads bald in bulk, probably not very much with us suspect the presidential race is in the Senate races in some extent the governor's race will buy all that time. But if you're running for some other counsel, state, race, or your voter wants to find out about the legislative races the congressional races County commission rises actually think you will get a lot of messaging. It just won't come in that form. It will come in your mailbox in an interesting way. The Internet age and the data revolution politics as has reinforced the value of old-fashioned, direct mail, email, Facebook, as other kinds of digital messaging even texting to your phones. One person was certainly going to be paying attention as this moves forward is John Hood chairman John Locke foundation. John thanks much for doing this. Thank you a lot more North Carolina journal radio in just a moment. If you have freedom we got great news to share with you now. You can find the latest news, views, and research from conservative groups across North Carolina all in one place North Carolina conservative.com it's one stop shopping. North Carolina's freedom movement and North Carolina conservative.com.

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Top priority for all members of Congress saddling this committees missing an opportunity to address serious oversight issues we could investigate the widespread and brazen lawmaking by the United Auto Workers union leaders who betrayed hard-working Americans in favor of self enrichment. We know the UAW Senior the union leaders engaged in money laundering, tax fraud, bribery and embezzlement. But this committee has taken no action we could investigate the potential fraud within Headstart. A recent report from the nonpartisan government and military office. GAO indicated there was income fabrication and doctored applications to impact an individual's eligibility we could investigate how potentially tens of thousands of people may be committing student loan fraud is a GAO report found borrowers may have understated their income are overstated their family size to reduce their student loan payments. There are real opportunities to work together to address the serious issues that require oversight.

Instead, committee Democrats will choose to use their time today attacking Sec. divorce for delays and responses to oversight requests. She's responding to let me remind everyone here today that the process to produce the oversight documents requested by any member of Congress, including the committee chairman requires reviews across multiple offices within the agency. All of this takes time is necessary to produce documents and answers that are actually responsive to members.

That's US representative Virginia Foxx Republican from North Carolina. She's defending US education Sec. Betsy divorce.

She's also criticizing Democratic colleagues on the house education and labor committee. Foxx thinks they should focus on different issues will return with more Carolina journal radio in a moment where doubling down on freedom at Carolina Journal radio were proud to bring you stories that impact your life and your wallet.

And now get twice as much freedom when you also listen to our podcast headlock available on iTunes and@johnlocke.org/podcast headlock is a little bit different. It's a no holds barred discussion that challenges softheaded ideas from the left and the right, like Carolina journal radio headlock is smart and timely but with headlock you'll hear more about the culture wars get some more humor as well. We guarantee great information and a good time double down with S. Listen to Carolina journal radio each week and listen to headlock to remember, you can listen to headlock@johnlocke.org/podcast or subscriber download each week iTunes Carolina journal radio and headlock just what you need to stay informed and stay entertained both brought to you in the name of freedom by the John Locke foundation. Welcome back to Carolina journal radio I Michiko got you might've heard of the game of thrones probably have not heard of the game of firms, but that's the name New York University political scientist Bruce Bueno day mosquito assigns to an important period of European history. He discussed the game during a recent lecture at Duke. I'm interested in the relationship between the secularization of Europe and Europe's economic development and how those two things were the strategic consequences of the relationship between the Catholic Church and politics in the guise of the interests of the holy Roman Emperor and a bunch of kings window day mosquito focuses on the impact of the Concorde of firms reached in 1122. It was a compromise of a long-running religious dispute. What did firms do in a nutshell, firms increase the bargaining power of secular will especially kings and wealthy dioceses with Catholic Church divided up into diocese so wealthy dioceses kings gained bargaining leverage and poor dioceses, the pope or the church gained leverage and a consequent so that was a wedge was created between the interests of the church in economic development and prosperity in the interests of secular rulers, secular rulers became motivated to make more of their territory, prosperous, and the church became motivated to limit the prosperity or even reduce the Concorde out of firms had major long-term impacts on European history the conquered.created an economic linkage or linkage between the rise of secular politics in Europe and the rise of economic development, something which surprisingly as far as I know no historian has observed nor has anybody setting the political economy of this.

The standard accounts which look at things like the pricing information and so forth. We will seal all strategic consequences of the conquered. So firms created the conditions under which northern Europe, which was poorer than southern Europe at the time comes much richer than southern Europe fails to become richer creating what is now the modern division between northern mostly Protestant Europe, which is more prosperous than today's mostly Catholic southern Europe. New York University political scientist Bruce Bueno day. Mosquito says the conditions arising from the Concorde out of firms had other implications. He referenced impacts in England more than a century later in 1297 Edward I in England is fighting a war against Philip the fair in France fair as soon handsome.

The full enough, there was a good guy. The fighting in Gascony itself interesting story. What fight was about but anyway Edward has nights in the field in Gascony and no money.

They need to eat their horses need to eat.

They need to be sheltered. They need arms. He has no money, so he goes to the Lord's and he says you are you all owe filthy to me.

I have this war going on.

You have to give me money and they say no this is not a war of necessity.

It is a war of choice. We are not obligated to defend you in a war of choice.

It's your choice. You want to fight this war. It's not our benefit. Good luck to you so returns to the church any levies a heavy tax on the court and Pope Boniface the eighth one fought to auto issues.

A bull curses live coastal coverages with vehicles that says that any clergy who pays taxes to the king is automatically excommunicated. I'm been a guess that the clergy were particularly likely to believe the religion so this is a very costly thinks that they're not paying for this desperate is not an army in the field. He turns to the wool merchants big export business in England at the time and he increases the tax on wool through a 400% of the wool merchants put their wool with their bundle it up and say not pay went went up to pay and so Edward because he needs the money to expand his empire issues confirm Osseo cart Harlem was much farther than Magna Carta. It says, from this day forward, no king of England.

Notice how he is now presuming that he is speaking for the country. England and its government, not just for himself, no king of England ever again will levy a new tax without the approval of the Lord in the Commons.

It is the beginning of Parliament.

Science felt an impact at the same time. Meanwhile Philip the fair in France. Besides fighting his war with Edward is also fighting the war with Boniface the eighth. Because Boniface has issued a second bull 1302 called on them. Some of them sunk them so.

One Corinthians 215 says that no man can judge the church and the church jumped at judges all something goes further. It says essentially even the lowest level clergy can depose anybody secular low clergy answer so priests after the bishop's bishops answered archbishops Archbishop sensor to the Pope. The Pope answers only to God course God's choice. But anything can be deposed by the church. Philip is not keen on this, combined with the deprivation of money because you can tax the clergy, so he calls the first ever estates general made up of the French nobles the French clergy in the front commoners, representatives of the commoners and he can so it's a weaker concession than income for much of her time but he is creating the beginnings of some representative government appoints only merit-based bureaucrats to help advance his agenda and he declares war holy war on the pope also invokes the term look at the core of most propoxyphene warriors sweet and proper to die for one's country telling Frenchmen that you should go and fight the Pope this evil guy, not as a guess: not as a Bertone, not as a burden on the person or an Mormon is a Frenchman and they don't what's the outcome of all these changes. What is today Protestant Europe takes off hundred years before Martin Luther gets into the space where they could break the church and also a question of having somebody with the right idea. The logic of the theory tells us that they should be stimulating growth and secularism in both of those we see the evidence is showing us happening so thanks to firms the incentive for to advance the interests of kings is strengthened and wealthy places so becomes more secular. That means that things have an incentive to make more of their dioceses wealthy, so they more political power and so they do the church. Meanwhile, try to limit economic growth.

We get a more secular world. We get a wealthier northern Europe compared to southern Europe and all of this happened before the Protestant Reformation, sparked by Martin Luther. That's Bruce .0 to mosquito New York University political scientist speaking recently at Duke University, will return with more Carolina journal radio would've really influence you either have it or you don't and at the John Mott foundation we have it, you'll find our guiding principles in many of the freedom forward reforms of the past decade here in North Carolina. So while others talk or complain or name call. We provide research solutions and hope our team analyzes the pressing issues of the day jobs, healthcare, education, and more. We look for effective ways to give you more freedom, more options, more control over your life. Our goal is to transform North Carolina into a growing, thriving economic powerhouse, the envy of every other state research is how policymakers make decisions that ensure you keep more of what you earn. Expand your choice of schools for your kids. Widen your job opportunities improve your access to doctors. The recipe for stability and a bright future for truth for freedom for the future of North Carolina. We are the John Locke foundation earlier in the program you heard the first part of the conversation between Donna Martinez and Amy Cook the new CEO of the John Locke foundation. Here is the rest of that chat, starting with Amy's take on growth in the craft beer industry that craft beer industry is a prime example that when you allow people to innovate and you unleash an entrepreneurial spirit look at where North Carolina is right now that really is a testament to that to the research of the Locke foundation and then the leadership at at the state level to me naturally where that comes from now as the new CEO of the John lock foundation. Not only will you be leading the team in terms of public policy, and working with the legislature, but we certainly have a big journalism division.

Here, Carolina journal the flagship publication, monthly print publication daily on online news site and we have a whole team of writers at their you now become a publisher of Carolina journal, and you have a bit of experience yourself. Being a writer and an author and also in Colorado. There was some journalism work that has gone on there at your former job right will actually it's it's kind of a heady title for somebody like me who I actually have a journalism degree.

I got it at the University of Missouri Columbia. Eight a very good journalism schools in magazine journalism. So in the long and longform journalism, but also your right as an author I've written everything from a Masters thesis all the way down to yell white papers issue backgrounders that C had a handful of pieces and blog posts, you name it. I've also said those of us who are not I'm I'm a better editor than I am a writer of Austen's eyes. I always like the editing side but will need more editors believed everywhere.

But here's here's here's the thing with that answer is worth seeing a change in the business model when it comes to journalism where I came from it. The Independence Institute, rather than constantly having to fight to get our information into traditional media. We just decided to go out and create our own which is much like what John lock did with the Carolina journal so it in a we don't we don't whine about somebody not picking us out here picking up a story. We just decided we would go out and create her own news media and this complete Colorado and this gets to the point of of of it.

It's not enough to just have that outlet, but you actually you have to to maintenance staff it well maintained.

It has to be exceptional quality because you are new right. Although Carolina journal's been around a very long time, but it has to be exceptional quality and I have a history of doing that at when I was in Colorado complete Colorado for what they called a startup week didn't even have a print piece but over 2 million unique views in in 2019, which was our goal so the importance of having additional voices as what we would call traditional mainstream media struggles sort of defined its place and struggles with the business model being having the Carolina journal. I couldn't be more honored than to be the publisher of such an exceptional news outlet and all the talented staff expect more and better even even better. So, as publisher of Carolina as Chief Executive Officer of the John Locke foundation you have your plateful obviously in learning that much, much more about the state and down how we can help to defend and advance some liberty for sure, but also you are a fun person I mean is very clear. Listeners can hear you. You are an outgoing person and you have a lot of interest, tells little bit more about Amy Cook. Well thank thank you for asking.

So I am an unapologetic free-market capitalist and I and I love to spread the word of freedom and and I just wrote what I'll say this I'm actually probably I'm like your friend to just quit smoking might be annoying I I am a converted capitalist group in a very left of center household. So I Isaiah I'm the worst kind of the kind that you I'm I'm the evangelist for but I also other interests.

I'm wildly competitive. I'll compete in darn near anything. If somebody brings in tiddlywinks or card throwing I'll be the one right they are trying to you in the fight.

My my passion is is sports because I love the competition. I'm also a cyclist. My hobby cyclist, so please don't put me on the Tour de France, but you may find me out in Asheville are out in the mountains you trying to to navigate up up some some climes.

There'll probably go take my bike over the coast and suffer through the heat and humidity in the wind and everything else to to ride there so if you see somebody out to another in a tunnel right road cyclist on the roads in Raleigh but you might find me some of the outlying parts of the state and that's a great way for me to go out and meet people and learn about new communities. I and that I should cost limitary last story I actually hear storyteller to that is Iranian so I also did used to do radii dabbled in radio for 10 years, but I'm actually very I have family from North Carolina people single what you have in North Carolina as well believe it or not. My namesake, my great great great grandmother was born in North Carolina. Okay that's sex right so it took me anyway she got married and then he took her on her husband took her on an adventure. My great great-great-grandfather took her own adventure all the way to Missouri. And so it's taken us about 200 years to get her name back to North Carolina but coming back to North Carolina and is is kind of funny. Apparently I have a relative who was a lousy shot and died in a duel go up there isn't much island is Halifax County. I think it is or how to check records there, but that's so you got history by but now you are going to be telling your stories and your family's history on social media and we have to talk latter question here about your social media because your Twitter handle is a hoot. Tell us about that. You might I do like to have a good time tonight and I like it. We take our mission very seriously. We don't take ourselves seriously, but my my name is Amy Amy Cook my middle initial is oh so it's Amy Oka. If you do that if you say so. I have so I want to make AOC great. Again, I will cure initials to be revered so my twitter handle my new twitter handle for it, especially now that I'm in in North Carolina is at the right AOC is about the only thing that I share in common with the other AOC's. We both used to be bartenders so there's that. But I said my I'm a little older little wiser with far better idea slots they went after hearing this interview. I have a feeling you can have a lot more followers on twitter at the right AOC and of course you can always follow the John Locke foundation at John Locke in C and at Carolina journal Amy Cook.

We are good.

Have a great time here in 20 ton listen to jobs ever so if we are having fun there something wrong with the sport and have a great time.thank you so much. You are very welcome such a delight to talk with you, Amy Cook, the new chief executive officer of the town lot foundation and the new publisher of Carolina journal. Thank you Donna, thank you, Amy. That's all the time.

We have the program this week. We hope you'll join us again next week for another edition of Carolina journal radio Carolina journal radio is a program of the John learn more about the John Locke foundation donations that support programs like Carolina journal radio send email development John Locke call 1866 jail info 166-553-4636 Carolina journal radio is the John lot foundation. Carolina's free-market think tank and Carolina broadcasting system, Inc. all opinions expressed on this program are solely those did not merely reflect the station.

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